How a 500 outshines the 552!

Hi-Fi Corner
62

Its hard to believe, but by current day prices of uber high-end equipment the 552/500 seems to be barely mid-priced.

Let me tell you what luxury is…when I first got into hifi (circa 1977) it was possible to buy a Linn/Naim triamped with NAP250 Isobarik system for less than the price of a single chassis fuse costs today (if you are familiar with Quantum Science Audio products).

And that maxxed out Linn/Naim system came with all interconnects, all power cables, all speaker cables and all fuses included in that price.

I have had on home demo some 2m power cables that retailed for over $10,000 each-and I had three of them resident at one time!

Now THAT is luxury, not a humble NAP500

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63

That’s not luxury, that’s madness :sunglasses::innocent:

64

Perfectly describes my thoughts on both the 552 and the 500. Pairing them and getting everything else right will take you to musical heaven regardless of price.

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65

Maybe another way of looking at this, neither being weak, is what would be the better upgrade;
552DR replacing 252DR in a 250 or 300DR system or;
500DR replacing 250 or 300 DR in a 252 system.
Both with ‘ideal’ sources, DR throughout and good cables.
Which would give the best ‘Wow’?

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66

One thing with the 500 that still make my heart jump is the size and design of it and drooling over the batman cast iron cooling area at the back (I have mine at top shelf). It is IMO the best looking Naim box made where the 552 is bit like a Supernait 1. It’s special to own a 500 when you all your life have owned same sized Naim boxes :slight_smile:

I mean, look at her!

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67

If you had to point a finger as to which is the weaker link in the two-link chain of the 552/500, it is unquestionably the former.

In the 552/500 pairing, I have swapped out (one at a time) both the 552 for a better preamp and then keeping the 552 in place, swapping out the 500 for a better power amp.

Once you hear what a better preamp is capable of, the shortcomings of the 552 seem quite large and unacceptable. A better preamp makes the 552 sound small, shut-in, two dimensional, smeared and boomy-NONE of which we hear when moving UP to a 552. But are too easy to hear when the 552 is meaningfully bettered. And it does not take a $100,000+ Statement pre to better the 552 either.

Moving from a 500 to a better power amp reveals that the 500 starts to compress even at modest volumes, loses detail at the top, grip and extension at the bottom and to a lesser extent also sounds shut in.

It is somewhat easy to find a power amp in the 500s price range that ticks more boxes in your set of requirements, than it is to find a worthy competitor to the 552 at the price of a 552…

To beat the 552, it takes an additional $10-20k, and sometimes for a meaningful upgrade $30k extra on top of the 552. The one exception is if your tastes are for a ‘tube’ sound…then a moderately priced tube preamp will give you more of what you are looking for than a 552 could.

Back in the early to mid 80s , there were only a few preamps I heard that made the 32.5/Hicap sound bland and boring.

The Audio Research SP10 mk2 at maybe 10x the cost of the 32.5
The Burmester at maybe 3x to cost of the 32.5 (I don’t remember the model, but if was chromed to the maxx, and in the showroom of Eulipion Audio)
And a Spectral DMC-10 at probably 5x the cost of a 32.5.

All of which were virtually unaffordable to all but a few 32.5 owners.

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68

Think you had better put a helmet on as i feel you will have incoming after that post.
But it makes a change from it being me.
By the way, I agree with most off it, apart from the cost required to better the 552. It costs nothing as in the tight system you dont need one, so that’s £27000 back in your wallet

69

Interesting.
So you experienced a better pre with the 500 dr. I believe you. Can you share on the model it was ? Boulder, Burmester, MBL ?

70

I’m also a fan of tube amps. Yes many of them sound even more open, more rich especially in the midrange and have a wet sound. Long decays to notes creating a very velvety and liquid sound. The 500 series is very precise, times exceptionally well but never sterile. It’s a dark presentation in some ways to tube amps and some other solid state gear I’ve tried but eventually it’s the one I have reverted back to.

At this end of the game I think to say one betters the other is futile. It’s a matter of what one likes from their hifi system. Before I gained all this experience I read statements like this blows that away and this product is obsolete now - I read this about Naim 500 series and old 16bit NOS DACs but in reality that was NEVER the case.

We do such a disservice by making such statements. I know I’ve wasted tens of thousands of pounds buying blind after being influenced by such comments.

@Dunc it’s seems to me that you think that Naim 500 series owners are unintelligent or too emotional to evaluate the comments rationally. I am only providing the alternative argument because it was exactly comments such as these that made me waste money and I don’t want other people to suffer the same losses.

Listen for yourselves and decide. I will repeat at the high end it’s more a matter of taste than anything else.

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71

Actually it was Boulders entry level power amp (the 300 wpc 1060) that showed the NAP500 to be dynamically strained and lacking in power and LF extension. At the time the Boulder amp was a just a few thousand $ less than the 500. The Boulder power amp was also entirely free of low level ‘motor-boating’ oscillation when using the LP12 with a Prefix/Supercap. Some RF breakthrough was provoking the 500 into small oscillations that did not occur with the Boulder power amp.

The preamp I heard that bettered my 552 was a highly, highly modded tube preamp. Velleman, so essentially a proprietary design.

I actually compared my 552 to the 1000 series Boulder preamp- I cannot remember the exact model number but it was about $12,000 when the 552 was >$20,000.
EDIT it was the Boulder 1010 preamp

The 552 simply smoked the Boulder preamp, but the Boulder power amp gave more of what the DBLs needed.

I believe people who have made the 552–>Statement preamp upgrade have been quite struck how small scale the 552 performance was next to a preamp that was about 4x the cost.

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72

I think some take it all far to serious is more the point.
It’s only music after all

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73

Go on then. Name names (and model numbers).

74

“Some people think music is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it’s much more serious than that.”

(with thanks to a certain Mr Shankly)

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75

There will always be something better around the corner… I like the 552DR it delivers the music presentation I enjoy, started using the 552 with a 300 then a 500 and now a 250DR mainly to reduce box count.
With all the above NAPs the difference wasn’t massive, I put this down to an exceptional source - DAVE

My view of course :grin:

77

In France, the actual Boulder 1110 costs 27 k euros. The 552 is 29 k euros. So if the 552 smoked the Boulder, it’s not a bad preamp then. In US, the 1110 is 21 k , so a bit less vs 552 if converted in dollars, without taxes.

As for amp, the 1060 delivers 300 W , the 500 dr 145 W. So maybe the DBL enjoy more the Boulder?

78

I’m taking my 500 series to the grave with me with a little Naim emblem on the lid.

I think a lot of us have bought used for a fraction of the current new prices, so listing kit that exceeds the 500 series is irrelevant.

Similar story with the LP12, sure there is better but we love :two_hearts: our Naim and Linn LP12’s and I would never break up the perfect marriage of a 552/500.

79

I’ve only listened to a few preamps since my 552 days.
The one that I have had the most experience with that were 552-beaters were some custom built tube amps that sold manufacter-direct for $20,000 (which would make them $40k+ through conventional retail channels). Premium components, point-to-point wiring, 800V power rails, 900VA power transformer, full class A etc.

The Boulder 2010 preamp at $40,000 made the 552 sound a little small and compressed.

The Audio Research REF preamps I have heard (more than one version) are very fluid but lacking in drive and grin factor. But they were also less expensive than the 552 as well.

The built in ‘preamps’ in the DAVE or HugoTT2 are quite uninspiring.

I have an old Chord preamp that sounds worse than the cheapest lowest spec Naim preamp ever built. I gave it away.

As I said, it is not easy to beat the 552 anywhere close to the 552 price.

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80

Every amp that weighs less than a pickup truck is underpowered for the DBL’s…some are more underpowered than others.

Even the 300 WPC 1060 Boulder had its clipping lights constantly flashing when listening at enjoyable levels.

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81

Someone had the same idea already :grin:

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82

Not when used as a DAC