That I always do or at least strive to do (unless someone gets unpleasant, which is always unnecessary) - though also giving serious consideration.
I don’t ‘wonder why’ others have not tried some sort of blind test (they have), but I am curious about whether you cannot just try it for yourself if you are interested in the result.
To be fair: -
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It’s a lot of faff.
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Most here don’t need a double-blind test to convince ourselves if the effect appears non-marginal to us, and few can be bothered to make a change in pursuit of a ‘difference’ that is only marginal.
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No evidence convinces most people who disbelieve passionately - double-blind tests included.
No amount of blind testing on a non-hifi-bore-audience seems able to persuade any non-believers even to have a listen themselves when considering even less polarising issues (e.g. can a dedicated mains spur/ radial help SQ, can anyone hear a difference with interconnects or power leads, is a Supercap better than a Hicap on an 82/282, do any LPs actually sound better than CD, does a ripped CD sound materially different to just playing the CD, can a record weight work with an LP12 et al).
Of course, @Richard.Dane 's example is particularly robust, but I appreciate that nothing written here is likely to persuade the more vigorous unbelievers to change their view. Few seem willing to participate in the sort of blind (or double-blind) testing that many here would find stronger than anecdotal evidence.
FWIW, between olive 250 and Shahinian Compasses or B&W 804 D3s, 3/3 thought TQ Black sounded a bit better than A5. The same audience (all discouraged from looking at which wires I had just connected) all thought the A5 directional (in that they could pick ‘something wrong’ when I swapped one around while they were forced into the kitchen). There was not much consensus on TQ directionality.
Note that I need lots of help from patient chums as my ears are old and abused, and I am a rubbish sound analyst who keep hearing the music and not the ‘difference’. If I were better at this, I too probably wouldn’t have gone to these lengths.
TQ Blue between Atom and Shahinians - one sighted and one blind listener failed to detect any SQ difference from any cable error apart from making a big coil out of the excess cable. I tried reversing one, but any difference was so marginal that I stopped chasing it and classified it as zero mentally. I had previously tried A5 in the same room and system and that was directional enough that getting it wrong attracted comments from a listener who firmly disbelieves in all Woo, including all cable differences.
I have previously tried inviting hard-core disbelievers in various forms of difference, along with those who reckon their interconnects sound vastly better to SL/ Hi-line/ Morgana, to pop round here with a group of friends and test their belief while I supply tea and coffee and swap cables (while they are not looking).
I got no takers, but plenty of unhelpful commentary, so I doubt I’ll try that again. As it was explained to me by a person from a hifi shop - hifi is about enjoyment: some most enjoy the music, while others most enjoy the smug feeling they get from feeling superior to those whom they believe have been fooled by Woo. Whatever gets you through the night…
I’ve no time for these constant cries of snake oil. It was similar with the LP12 felt mat and which side sounded better. People saying it was nonsense for several years yet seemingly unwilling to listen for themselves. Then a magazine provided scientific proof that they at least sounded different and that seemed to shut them up. Tiresome really, but they are the one’s losing out.
FWIW I am currently running MIT cables. Did quite a bit of demo and ended up using the cables the “wrong” way and it made a major difference in sound. OK, these have networks in the cable that explain it. But I would think that, like in these cables, directionality is determined by some sort of architecture in the cable itself rather than random alignment of the copper crystalline structure.
I hear something that you don’t believe I can.
You demand that I prove my belief to you through double-blind testing.
Should I (as must be the case) fail - do I then stop hearing something.
Should I successfully jump through your hoops - will you then hear it too? If so - why couldn’t you hear it now?
Difficult to see my motivation here.
*** I don’t like ‘ice cream’ with guar gum or other stabilizers. You may not mind or be unable to taste a difference.
It is a matter of great indifference to me.
You won’t need a helmet to protect from the responses because I doubt there will be anything worse than (mostly good natured) sniggering.
Before we start on the exact meaning of ‘everything’, ‘measurement’ and ‘not true’ in the above, and without trying to apply your requirement to statements like ‘women make ballot box decisions as well as men’ or ‘no race is superior to another’ or anything else non-trivial and equally likely to cause real offence…
My girlfriend is very fine. I do not require that she be measured.
David Bowie, Nina Simone, Roy Harper and Elvis Costello all wrote better songs than Sock, Napkin and Waterbed or Mike Batt. Proven by measurement?
As a Mr. Cleese argued: “One cannot prove this, but it is in the way that Mount Everest is or that Alma Cogan isn’t”.
Here’s another perspective: regardless of whether you think it matters or not, how hard is it to connect things up with the arrow pointing in the right direction? Not hard at all.
And if it is snake oil, who benefits? Atlas make high end cables and theirs aren’t directional. So it’s not like you pay extra for it.
So really, the whole thing is somewhat moot.
If several audio specialists observe that cables can be directional, why not trust them? They have no financial interest to say that. People will not buy cables for the reason they are directional or not. Be it Naim, Nordost, PS audio…, they all observed similar phenomenon.
Science will not prove it because it has no interest for her.
It’s the same discussion as for burn in, audiophile switch , audiophile powerblock….Because common science has no explanation for it, it shouldn’t exist. Very tiring.
I have heard the difference when a dealer accidentally plugged in the cables wrong way round. He apologized and switched them. Everyone in the room immediately heard the difference, except the dealer!
I love the idea that there are phenomena like this which we can’t explain, and I have no time for people who deny their existence simply because they don’t have an explanation.
Some of the arguments about one thing better than another are fallacious comparisons because they are purely subjective, purely a matter of personal opinion.
Claims that something sounds different due to change in the way a physical device behaves as a result of usage, as opposed to simply declaring “the item sounds different /better to me now a month has passed” is a claim of something having changed in the waveform of propagated sound, and that must have a physical cause, and so could be measurable. Similar applies to a wire sounding different depending on its direction.
The physical cause may be unknown, and that is where, for those interested in these things, hypotheses are made and tested. As for measurement, the question is whether the right parameters are being measured and with sufficient sensitivity. But the starting point is verified observation that there truly is a difference, for which possible psychological effects need to be excluded. For this blind testing can be a very good and often simple approach - and given that this is just a hobby, where choice to spend money is entirely that, the rigorousness of double blind testing as used in, say, medical research is, I suggest, unnecessary (and I don’t recall ever reading anyone suggesting that extreme, though often cited by people against).
Does not hearing a difference in a double blind test prove there is no difference or that a difference wasn’t heard?
For a test to be valid, shouldn’t it eliminate or compensate for variables, such as the variation between peoples hearing and/or perceptive abilities?
If 5 “punters” were testing alongside Roy George but only Roy noticed a difference, would that mean Roy was wrong?
Like you, I would say I’m not good enough to go into that level of detail, but I still think the electrons will travel the wire in both directions. But let’s leave it at this, I certainly need to do more reading to debate this in greater detail.
The thing is, how many people here believe it’s snake oil, yet still ensure the cable alignment follows the manufacturers recommendation (especially that Naim white band). If you really didn’t believe it, you wouldn’t bother to check.
There are of course many things over the centuries that people believed but had to wait for science to catch up to prove it. Personally I’m happy to believe that it may well make a difference. I did install my Burndy cable incorrectly for a week - noticed no difference when corrected though.
Good point. There’s no scientific theory that explain that it’s necessary to massage the burndys to maximise the sound quality performance.
But it works. If you measure stressed burndys vs destressed burndys, you will probably have the same exact measurements.
You don’t need 5 punters. Just Roy. If he could hear a difference that could stand statistical rigor (ie not just a coin toss after 20-40 blinded listening sessions) then a difference exists. Simple, not smoke and mirrors, not rocket science, not subjective.
It’s magic…
Or Ley Lines.
I agree, though that prompts the question as to whether that was the case.