How are cables directional?

Correct on 1 and incorrect on 2.

How are ‘electrons’ related to magnetism?

Well, it is the magnetic moments of the electrons in a substance that determine its own magnetic properties. Electrons are, therefore, one of the three sources of magnetism.

In this topic electromagnetism would rather be the main focus, but as an answer to your question…

1 Like

I was under the impression that it’s to do with how electrons traverse a conductor?
Nothing to do with frequency, whatever…
It’s discernable from DC up…

However for some, including me, is in our nature to want to know/understand, so even in that circumstance I sometimes ask why…(though usually do whatever it is).

3 Likes

That does spoil the joke a little with logic, but so do I :smile:

I’m not sure I’m following exactly what you’re saying here, but looking at the Skin Effect page on Wikipedia might help - it’s very helpfully written and has the usual formula(s) to calculate skin depth for a specific conductor under given conditions. You could easily calculate the skin depth for NACA5, if you were so inclined.

Skin depth is proportional to the reciprocal of the square root of the supply frequency, so frequency is very much not irrelevant. The skin effect is also important at mains frequencies.

Mark

2 Likes

:flushed:

Like most things in life, just try it if you can.
Speaker cable just swap it around, and see if you can hear a difference.
This also goes for most cables, unless they are finished different at both ends.
Plus just because someone has supposedly listened to the cable and decided one way is better than the other doesn’t mean you will also find the same outcome.
Or if you’re not bothered then just carry on as you are, simply really.
I certainly don’t take what someone might say sounds better etc, i also certainly don’t from someone that is older than say 25 with so called
magic ears.
Just ask a teenage to listen to it. Lol.

2 Likes

Well, a stationary electron has an electric field, but a steadily moving electron relative to a proton (not accelerating) as an electric and a magnetic field. An accelerating electron produces electromagnetic waves. An electron has a dipole magnetic field.
As I understand it, anyway.

I don’t think we understand how electrons and the electromagnetic field in and around cables work in Hifi systems.

So I don’t think there is any chance of coming up with a satisfying answer to the question you asked (quoted above).

1 Like

How do they work differently in HiFi systems? Why are they different from any other electrical system?

I’ve given up on explanations.

As with many audio related issues there are so many uncontrolled variables regarding sound in a room that speculation is pretty pointless.

The simple answer is try the cables in all possible directional permutations and use what sounds best (if any does more than another).

Life is too short.

6 Likes

I don’t think anyone fully understands the relationship between sound quality in hifi systems and the physics of hifi systems (including cables).

That’s why I thought it was strange that you introduced the idea of electrons into this thread - because I also don’t think a discussion of electrons will make it easier to understand a debate about whether the direction of cables can influence SQ.

3 Likes

I don’t think that I introduced electrons - the discussion concerned the transmission of the (electrical) signal, which concerns electrons.

I think that the more important consideration is they way that the human ear/brain reacts to the sounds in hifi systems - physicists understand pretty much how electrical systems work, but biologists and psychologists have a long way to go to understand the brain.

1 Like

My father founded the Division of Biostatistics at Washington University’s School of Preventive Medicine in the mid-60s. At the time there were only a small handful of biostatisticians in the world. That’s why I live in the U.S. He was recruited and moved our family from Germany to take a position at MD Anderson Cancer Research Institute in Houston, TX, and five years later offered a full professorship at Washington University.

4 Likes

My knowledge is significantly out of date. But I did do a degree in control and electronic systems, there was a large component related to how electricity flows in conductors. I also did modules with the physics department in how electrons flow in transistors and some quantum mechanics etc. It made my head hurt at the time, I can barely remember any of it now.

One thing which did stick in my memory was the Physics lecturer, who was an incredible character, well past retirement age and whom I believe had been involved with some of the fundamental work in lasers and semiconductors as a younger man. He made it quite clear that the models we use in physics/engineering today to predict the behaviour of physical systems are approximations to nature and are not as exact as us engineers like to think they are. They are simply the best models we have to date and will no doubt be improved on as our knowledge improves. His point being that whilst engineers like to deal with absolutes we needed to be careful with this approach as the underlying physics involves quite a large number of “approximations” and there is an appreciable error in the calculations.

Certainly my design work in engineering always tends to include a healthy element of overage / safety margin added to ensure the output is as predicted. After of course there has been a large amount of detailed analysis to satisfy my inner engineer.

I remember getting interested in Naim systems whilst at university and being impressed with Julians approach as it followed quite closely the principles for signal transmission we were being taught at the time and were in use in the industry I started working in. It was one of the reasons I bought into the brand and have stuck with it over the decades (mind you I was horrified to find Naim now sells really expensive cables when I got back into this website a few years ago).

I am personally unconvinced that the copper cores in cable has directionality or has a burn in effect etc, but I am well aware that the construction of the cable and how shielding and earthing plus how the physical connections are made will change whether the cable picks up on interference. I can see how this packaging affects how it may transmit a signal, whether this is audiable is for me, debatable and I do err on the side of wanting evidence to back up what I think is a lot of companies exploiting people to make money (expensive fuses come to mind, $$$ expensive cables etc). There is after all a rich history of snake oil in the hi fi world.

Whist I am un-convinced, I do ensure that the cables are set up in the right direction and trust that Naim knows best on these things, its easy, its cheap and whether it works or not, its not something i can be bothered spending my time testing or worrying about. I’d much rather just listen to the music - it does sound rather good to me coming out of my system.

13 Likes

Did you mean “not relevant”? Skin effect in stranded cable becomes significant at ultrasonic frequencies (MHz).

1 Like