It sounds like the bass player’s suddenly wearing gloves, not that it has much impact on the track as a whole. Talking of holes, why is jazz so often set up so left and right even when they’d got the hang of recording in stereo. OK there’s some cello, flute and sax popping up in the middle of this one but with piano, bass and drums all on the right it’s sort of busy on that side.
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I hope you do not think I am being argumentative but how do you know how the bass should be reproduced if you have never heard a good representation of it?
Have you heard this live?
It could just be a poor recording. The bass does seem to be a little recessed but it just may be down to the mix and the recording itself so it may not be that your system is not reproducing it correctly but that it is and it is just not that good.
Evening. I have a Naim 552/500/Kudos Titan 808 and streamed this track from Qobuz via an ND555 with 2xPS.
The bass is low in the mix preceding the drop off at 6.13. I can hear the level change which would indicate either a mixing decision or the player moving further from the recoding source.
The recording is good but not excellent imo. I find it a bit hot in the higher frequencies with less lower end than I would normally like but I am now playing the whole album and very much enjoying it.
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Not heard this track, but when you mentioned the strong bias to one side, could this be trying to reproduce the live band arrangement. My recollection of Buddy Rich in particular was a stage with himself just left of centre, piano, bass and guitar hard left and horns occupying the whole right hand half of the stage.
Similarly, Jools Holland, piano hard left, organ behind, guitars, drums and bass, then horns occupying two thirds of the stage.
Tidal lists 3 versions of this track. The first two Masters sound identical to me but also sound like a poorly done remaster. The third seems to be the original and sounds way different. More muted but more natural given the age of the recording.
The bass is in the back of the mix but easy to follow. At 6:13 the fur coat comes in as @Suedkiez accurately described it. Overall, not a good recording imo.
There’s a tone poet reissue of that album from Mc coy. Maybe it will sound much better. Very probably.
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Hi Suedkiez
If you have time/interest would you look up the track credits in Roon for the album “KEITH JARRETT - CHARLIE HADEN - PAUL MOTIAN – Hamburg ‘72” please?
I came across this the other day - and really enjoyed inter alia listening to Keith playing soprano sax, flute and percussion as well as piano.
Would be interesting to see whether Roon lists different track credits for each track.
Jim
It does have per-track credits and I don’t know if they are correct, but they differ between tracks:
Track 1:
Track 2:
Track 3:
Track 4:
Track 5:
Track 6:
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Thanks for these screen grabs.
I’ve only heard the album once (last week), but from memory these look very good in terms of what Jarrett et al played on each track.
When I had a quick scan of Discogs and Wikipedia earlier i couldn’t see any track credits.
I will play the album tonight when I get home (post-childcare, if I’m not too knackered!).
This makes me a wee bit more likely to get Roon at some point.
(I will also try to remember to check whether the Naim app has a ‘Handbook’ on this album with this type of info).
Roon also shows the booklet PDF from Qobuz and that one does not have per-track credits.
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Are the booklets in the Naim app sourced from Qobuz?
I believe so because only the labels will have the copyrights and can provide them legally, which usually they do only to the streaming services (if at all). That’s why Roon also uses only the streaming services for booklets and nothing else.
(Other info like credits can be compiled and distributed by anyone because not covered by copyright)
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Hi FR
Thanks, but that’s a different album.
Same decade.
Same recording studio.
Looks good though.
But what is it?
Jim
If you feel inclined please let me know what you think of the reproduction of treble in the album Jarrett Haden Motian Hamburg ‘72?
On my system the extreme right hand quartile of keys and Motian’s cymbals sound awful - harsh and unpleasant to listen to, especially in the first track.
This is due to the poor quality radio recording that even Eicher cannot cure.
(Jarrett also seems to hit an off note by mistake at 1:52).
Despite this, two tracks on the album (Ornette & Che) are musically so brilliant that I forget all about the horrid recording and get lost in the flow of the music, as the three players listen and respond to one another and make it up as they go along.
This may sound crazy, but I think Jarrett blows Coleman out of the water (as a player who says something with a sax).
(He even does Coleman better than John Zorn did Coleman).
[Hope this is not seen as thread drift].
Too my ears the bass for the seconds you identify actually goes high. That’s why he merges into the mix.
I hear high tones too but wondered whether these were overtones. But probably the consensus here is that the mix is off so they may well be high notes after all. However, to me some of the notes are barely audible, and these may be the lower notes. I hear enough of a whisper that it seems notes are being played continuously - By which I just mean without gaps, ie I’m trying to say there are notes being played where it could be perceived there is a gap between notes.
Listened to it. First song, I thought the cymbals weren’t too bad at first but they got a bit fatiguing by the end of the song . Second song I found the flute slightly harsh in the high notes, and the cymbals a little too, especially some quieter cymbals toward the end. Didn’t have any issue with keys at any stage. Really enjoyed the rest of the album, so thanks for that.
Also a Coleman and zorn fan, and zorn playing Coleman (which I have on vinyl). Definitely Jarrett playing Coleman was pretty great.
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Not my cup of tea, but first I listened without prejudice (i.e. I had no idea how far through the track we were). Then sat down, tried to re-compose myself, and listened to you troublesome section.
It seemed to me that halfway through the section the bass player went from one riff to another, and I almost lost it, and on my system that shouldn’t happen. so it looks like it’s been mixed down, perhaps the new riff wasn’t suitable?
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