I have a pair of Harbeth P3ESR bookshelf speakers. They are currently placed in built-in bookshelves in my library.
My chain is a HOLO CYAN DAC to my NAIT 50. I also have a pair of REL subwoofers. My speakers and subwoofers are in a small library room. I listen mostly to female vocal and acoustic such as Diana Krall and Stacie Kent at Low to mid-level volume.
How important is it to take the speakers out of the built-in shelves and put them on stands? I’m wanting more 3-D holographic staging. Would putting the speakers on stands provide more depth to the staging and generally better Sound how significant of an improvement would that be?
Short answer: yes, it matters a lot, especially for what you’re chasing (3‑D holographic staging).
Do you have something around that you can use to put the speakers on temporarily? Like a coffee table etc … at least you are able to listen to the effect of putting these out in the open.
Very important if you want to hear them at their best, or at least see if they can sound better than they currently do to your ears. Definitely worth trying.
This is an AI overview using the make and model, but bear in mind how Harbeth anticipated most people would use/position them, optimising them accordingly:
“Optimal positioning for Harbeth P3ESR speakers relies on sturdy, non-resonant stands, tweeter-to-ear height alignment, and clear breathing room from boundaries. Place them 30 to 60 cm from the rear wall, slightly toed-in, and at least 50 cm from side walls to avoid bass bloat and achieve a wide, holographic soundstage.”
Absolutely important! Despite the fact that most small speakers are called ‘bookshelf’ speakers, most of ‘em will be seriously compromised in their performance, when placed on a bookshelf. Imho, it’s a waste of potential. (also to let the Nait 50 show what it’s capable of)
Placing your Harbeth P3ESR speakers on stands will very likely improve its performance in many areas. (soundstage depth, imaging, bass (less but more controlled)
Speakers like the Harbeth P3ESR deserve a very good stand.
Very few speakers actually get away with a “bookshelf” placement, some can or are less affected but they are rare. That’s why its better to call them “standmount” speakers to set the expectation. I would expect your Harbeths to be transformed in the areas you are looking to get gains on.
Even the different types of stand and indeed the coupling to them can have big effect.
To your last question, I would say very significant a difference.
In line with what others have said, there’s simply no way that you will be hearing your P3ESR’s at anything even close to what they are capable of. If you put them on proper stands and away from the wall they will sound 100% better, no question. Yes you will get VASTLY improved imaging. If you have never heard your speakers like this then you’ve never heard them. As they are now they are fighting a losing battle.
Having said all this, if you find them acceptable to you as they are and it suits the room better then despite all this I would say it’s in no way wrong to leave well alone. So what if you’re not getting the most from them? If you enjoy them then that’s all that matters.
If you can fit them into your small room, I’d strongly recommend putting your speakers on a pair of decent stands. Doing so has several benefits. Firstly, they are designed to be used in free space and the bookshelves will almost certainly be having a deleterious effect on SQ. Getting them out from the shelves should on its own improve the sound markedly. Secondly, a significant height difference between the speakers and your ears can affect mid and upper frequencies and thus voices. A good choice of stands can put the speakers at the right height to eliminate this. Thirdly, stands should reduce or, ideally, eliminate undesirable cabinet movement which will also improve the sound.
So stands will almost certainly improve imaging and the sound generally. I’d suggest working with your Harbeth dealer to make a good choice.
It will depend on the speakers! Some are expressly intended for on or in wall or bookshelf mountings, others for free space - though even the latter might work well against the wall depending on the rest of the room (size & shape, positionings and furnishings). You could always try with a makeshift stand first, to see the balance and soundstage shifts compared to against the wall, Suitable stands might improve on the makeshift, but likely by far less than the change in positioning itself.
Hi, I think it’s hard to conclude anything really other than try and listen. The LS3/5a particularly the Falcon Acoustics Gold Build is quite unlike any speaker I have heard and it is a specific design pattern… I would say in some senses they have some similarities with electrostatics in terms of speed and transients in my opinion with a slight warming presentation… just a lot more practical in smaller listening areas… oh yes they do appear to have taken quite a bit of running in… not sure if that is related to mid-bass driver cone being made of Bextrene.
Personally I have found Harbeth speakers generally on the slower presentation side which is quite different from LS3/5a, and not really my thing, but they often have a sweet mid.
IMO, the Harbeth speakers are usually on the relaxed side, not the pace-forward side, but they are not inherently slow in a bad way. In particular, the bigger 40-series in particular can sound quite dynamic and scale well, especially on the Tontrager stands.
Indeed, it is a matter of what you are wanting… I owned a pair of C7 ES3 once. They were, in my setups, pleasant and sweet, but I felt after a while the timing was off in the upper and lower bass along with resolution around those frequencies and gave a warm cuddly but slightly congested sound around those frequencies. The acid test outcome was I found myself listening to less music. I sold on after about a year.
They were certainly well made and looked the part. Of course some of this is also down to speaker - room coupling…. But I can understand somebody loving them. With respect to the question posed to me, I find the Harbeth house sound a country mile away from the LS3/5a character.
