How much has audio reproduction REALLY advanced?

I can think of an analogy in photography.

Digital photography are sharp and it’s really cleaner, at higher resolution and often vivid.

Technically they are better then the old film days.

But many photographers (few really still use film nowadays) would apply film filters, apply film grains, simulate film colour curves to these high resolution files for artistic purposes.

They and a lot of people agree that they look “better” has more “feelings” or “soul”.

In truth, I am still wondering is it nostalgia? I often look at my sons, and wonder when they grow up, would they find the same “soul” and “feelings” with these artistic filters, as they grew up in a world full of digital sharpness. Can they connect to the film world?

Hi Dungassin,

If you’re interested in this area, may I suggest Greg Milner’s Perfecting Sound Forever, which is a history of recording technology. It goes into detail from Edison to Pro Tools and often makes connections between ‘improved’ technology and marketing… Tangentially David Toop’s Ocean of Sound and other works also illuminate perception of recorded music.

regards,

Giles

Thanks, but I already have it on my Kindle.

On some amps there is a three input pin, saw it on a modern day yamaha. Which type is this - BNC or XLR, the amp costs about £1600 And on a Pioneer reference 4k Blue-Ray/ CD player there’s similar outputs and which are these, they are three pins and they all look the friggin same, it’s very confusing sometimes!!! The bnc looks the same as the xlr as they both have three pins. Am i right or wrong?

As far as I’m aware BNC is only a coaxial connector, so if you have 3 pins that sounds like it will be XLR.

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As ChrisSU points out, BNC connectors are coaxial types, a bit like a bayonet version of an RCA/Phono:
image

A three pin could be one of a number of possibilities, XLR being the most common in amps in the UK, but there are also others including a 3-pin Din (was fairly common back in the 1960s/70s).

Why not post a picture of the inputs of the amp?

The 3 pin connector on the back of the Yamaha audiophile amp.


And this is the balanced out on a Yamaha CDP, matching; So it is balanced XLR. I got confused because initially you said it was a digital connection but i’ve seen them quite regular on DACs and other players. So this is the balanced type analogue signal. It’s on this Yamaha matching cds-2100:-

IIt’s getting much more ubiquitus on mid range players and dacs
And it’s on this reference Pioneer UDP LX800

A balanced 3 pin XLR connection analogue out on the player. The SQ must be a step above rca sockets and they only come in mid to hi-ish end AV equipment. That’s cleared that up!
:

One thing i’ve noticed is the iec double shielded internal power connector which i do not like as it’s much less secure than a three pin connector and my Ps4 Pro has one and there’s a slight low level hum coming from it. It’s annoying as it’s the only hum in my system and you tend to notice things like this when you know a little bit about earth and grounding. The only way i can get rid of this is if i ground the usb on the front of the ps4 pro to casework or an earth ground plug as the rear usb socket is used for external working hard-drive so can’t be used. There is a slightly different usb camera connection on the rear but it’s unavailable to buy a blank connector of this type. So i might have to kive with it until they release the new Ps 5 next year.

So can you buy a made-up 2 rca to a balanced XLR or balanced XLR to 2 rca signal lead as they are both analogue but the 2 rca is unbalanced and will this be a SQ improvement on the original 2 rca to 2 rca signal lead? I think probably not as the 2 rca is unbalanced.

On those three photos I’d say the top pic is definitely XLR, bottom one 99% certain, middle one about 90% certaint. In conjunction with each other that means yes, they are XLRs

I wouldn’t use 2xRCA to XLR (or vice versa) if you have the option of XLR-XLR or RCA-RCA: I don’t think there’d be anything beneficial in the converter cable, and it could be worse depending on the particular amp anc source. But if one piece of kit only has RCA and the other only XLR, then yes.

If a 3-pin connector is so much better than a 2-pin … then what about the 4/5-pins that Naim use?

The reason to avoid balanced is that it is much more expensive. If both halves at the receiving end is not exactly really well matched balanced is not really fun at all. The simplest way is to use a transformer but they are also expensive - didnt Linn use expensive Lundahl transformers for the balanced i/o on the Linn Klimax series?

Transformers can sound good but they are nor perfect. I have a bunch of transformers connected in series in a box in the studio - for whenever I want to mushy/soften upp the sound a bit to make something else stand out.

I dont see the point in going balanced for a few decimeter well-separated cables in my home system. Have you ever looked at the cable layers under the studio floor? It is quite understandable the hassle of going balanced is necessary in that case …

Nick, there is only benefit in using 75 ohm CI cable and connectors if the connecting electronic interfaces are designed to also run at 75 ohm… otherwise this could be rather sub optimal or at best no benefit. Now SPDIF is designed to run over a 75 ohm transmission line, but not aware of any analogue audio circuits running like this.

No not necessarily… balanced vs unbalanced usually depends on the length of lead and also whether you use a common ground reference.
With balanced XLR, you decouple your from the ground reference… ideal for long runs, or where you have no assurance over the ground, but typically slightly higher distortion. Unbalanced RCA/DIN provides a common ground reference, and is ideal where the ground can be assured and short runs.

Hi @Simon-in-Suffolk. This was 20+ years ago, mind. The advantage of RG6 and BNC at the panel ends was to make the long runs agnostic— I could transport composite video, S-video, component video, SPDIF, or analog audio in either direction from AV system on right side of room to Naim stack on left side, or to TV in the middle. At the time of installation I had a top model Mitsubishi 36” CRT, which wanted BNC for best results, IIRC.

Nick

To address the OP original post and point… Early recording had way less BS in between the performance and the Recording engineers. Also all of the recordings were ANALOG, and TUBES… Some recordings were almost Direct to Disc with very little processing since it didn’t exist. The original RCA shaded dogs, and Mercury’s from the 50’s sound to die for… Many are available as DSD down loads from HD Tracks or Acoustic Sounds. Lots of early to mid-ish 60’s recordings are also amazing in there naturalness … The Doors, Beatles, Joni Mitchell, Simon and Garfunkel; all these where recorded on Analog tape with most using Tube amps and mics.

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