I wonder how many cable guzzlers among us are playing their expensive games even before bothering to install a dedicated electrical circuit for their music systems.
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The misspelling of the Roman âyearâ reminds me of an incident that happened at my school over 50 years ago.
The school wrote to inform parents of a rise in fees for the following year, and stated that â ⌠the fees would rise to ÂŁx per anumâ.
One parent (a judge) noticed the misspelling, and wrote back to the school, saying that he â⌠would continue to pay through the nose as usualâ.
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Very good point.
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Me!! I had new flooring and skirtings fitted throughout my place before I became aware of the benefits of a dedicated circuit. Hoping to move home very soon which will hopefully allow this to be addressed. As for the OPâs thread question, I refuse to answer this and plead the 5th amendment, other than to acknowledge that, IMO, alternative cables can make a considerable difference!!
Peter
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So Graham, do you think Naim are peddling âsnake oilâ with SL?
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Snake oil or no snake oil, Iâve currently got both NACA5 and KS-1 here on loan to accompany a new SN3 and there is quite the difference between the two. They remind me of comparing the Atom HE and Hugo2. The NACA5 is typical Naim, punchy and forward, whereas the KS-1 is a little more refined, with better details and definition.
As ever, which is best depends very much on the rest of your system and youâre own taste.
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So one of the hardliners and Objectivists are going to persuade you that they sound identical then?
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But they donât sound identical. If people think they do then theyâve either, a) not heard them at all, b) heard them in a system which didnât reveal their differences, or c) have cloth ears and probably shouldnât be in this game
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For the first fifty-odd years of Naimâs existence, the party line was that the (fairly basic, but well made and well terminated) cables supplied with the equipment were all that the user needed and that there was no benefit to be gained by substituting exotic and expensive cables. Indeed - the Naim argument went - the user may even worsen the performance of the electronics by substituting âimprovedâ cables.
That all changed, pretty much overnight, when the 500 Series was launched using expensive cables. I attended one of the 500 Series launch events at my dealers in North London, and I recall that Paul Stephenson was given a hard time when he was trying to explain and justify Naimâs change of position.
Iâm happy to go along with Naimâs original position.
Others may choose to go along with Naimâs revised opinion.
I had my hearing checked quite recently, and have no need of hearing aids.
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I am with you!
I have not heard KS-1 in my system, but changed from A5 to TQ Black 2 because I needed new 18M cables (not 16M as I erroneously typed before) and wanted something that would fit easily around doors. I was surprised to find a small-ish (but eminently consistent and repeatable) improvement. As a not-great tester with not-great ears, I was a bit surprised.
In my system and room and to my ears, a dedicated radial for mains was a bigger uplift than changing interconnects (which may be complicated by shielded/ unshielded and well-dressed/ badly-dressed issues), and interconnects gave more improvement than A5 to TQ Black 2 speaker cable. However, all were consistent and repeatable improvements.
From above, I suspect that @graham55, @Naimism, @Louis_lx, @Innocent_Bystander, @Oxbow, @Neilb1906 and some others here are not convinced that any of this can have any objective reality at all. Donât even look at the views on PFM!
Some âknowâ from first principles that expensive cables cannot work so never waste a moment hearing them (in case they are fooled into buying?).
Others have listened as fairly and robustly as they can within the last 10 or 15 years and can hear no upgrade (and often little or no difference at all). As systems get better and hearing gets worse, that will presumably happen to all of us sooner or later.
Some of the people in that group are happy to believe that others may be able to âhear a differenceâ when they themselves cannot (which has happened to me pretty often over the years), while others think that is impossible - except by bias/ delusion.
Finally, I too recall the original JV views on cables. In the days when an LP12 was an inexpensive turntable and a modestly-priced 32.5 or 72 was Naimâs best preamp and few had more than one high quality source (or more than 4 or 5 boxes), cable dressing was not much of an issue and the original Naim line looked very sensible. I am not convinced any of those statements apply now.
In that context, @graham55 's comments on hearing the 500 system with expensive cables is interesting. Graham, did the 500 series system sound exactly the same to you through Naimâs basic cables as it did through the expensive ones?
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Money
OR even⌠Snaic Oilđ
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Nick, that was the (to us, then) rather startling point, that the 500 amps had these new, exotic cables. There was never a chance to hear these (rather startling) new components with the old style cables.
I shouldnât make too much of this. Iâm very very happy with my whole system, including the original cables. Others might want to experiment by trying out all manner of different interconnects, etc, but Iâm happy with the system as is, and I prefer to concentrate on the music.
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Ok interesting story, but what did Paul really say to justify the move from naca5 to superlumina then. What was the reasoning
There is some technical justification on the website. Whether they are taking the mickey with their prices I donât know
or d) heard in a system that had electronics not sensitive to influence by cables, so only where a cable itself filters some aspect of the sound, such as rolling off the treble or bass would they be likely hear a difference.
As for c), I guess they indeed arenât in the game of spending time and money on tweaks. âCloth earsâ are wonderful, in particular being very good for getting best value for money out of a hifi system! (I guess like fabric, cloth ears come in a range of levels of quality, with extremely refined.)
I wonder how many people buying expensive cables have made their decision supported by blind testing? I think assessing blind has been mentioned only a couple of times in this thread.
Well Nick,
I don´t think it as to do all with belief, maybe with the journey of each one of us in the Hifi World.
No one (maybe a Russian oligarc or a Arabian PrinceâŚ) Hifi enthusiast buys from nothing its definitive and ultimate system, they start with something and then improve step by step.
So the question is more in a Hifi system where to improve.
Coming from the modest vinil system of my wife, after a lot of demoing, I choosed buying on 1990 or so, a budget âbest-buyâ system, a Marantz CD80, Audiolab 8000A, Rega ELA, 5 mts Supra Cable.
I thought I ended buying a wonderfull Hifi system, that would give me plenty of joy for 20 years or so.
Problem was, I started to buying CDs, some music that I had on vinil some not, and I was feeling more and more sad and disappointed with the âmusicâ. All clinic and no soul.
Of course I blamed the âlousyâ speakers, the Rega, then a expert told me about cables and convinced me of buying a Kimber 4TC. And I explored the subtilies of the new improvement.
And I started to think that I had spent money for nothing, the solution was not there.
Then after a lot of speaker testing, I meet a guy that invited me to hear âhis stuffâ, is office was in a small apartment, and he put together a CD3, 72, 140 and speakers, I think Naim, and I heard and I said âwowâ⌠I bring them home, I connected them to my âlousyâ speakers and I said âWow, wowâ.
So I finished selling the âbest buysâ Marrantz, selling the Audiolab, sending the Kimber cable to AV duties, I finished with CD3 (new), 72+140 (pre loved and abused), NACA 5 and the (lousy) REGA ELA.
After a lot of upgrades I now have my âdefinite and ultimateâ system, at least until one more, or two, or three âsmallâ upgrades, but the main story is this.
Don´t fool around with cables, go for the main thing.
PS: Excuse my poor written and w/o supervision english.
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All of ÂŁ300 actually just a bit under ÂŁ225 on some WH Phantom speaker cables and two sets of Chord Chrysalis 2 RCA>>5 Pin Din.
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Iâve no experience of changing mains or interconnecting cables, something to try in the future
Youâre probably right, I was very happy with my previous speaker cable of over a decades use. I just needed some longer ones and am lucky enough to live locally to a dealer whoâs happy for me to try different bits at home.
OK, so thatâs a yes then. Fair enough.
Do you also believe that âsnake oilâ as a term applies to other items - pre amps, Dacs, cartridges? Or is it exclusive to cables?
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