How to improve 252 / SUPERCAP DR / NDS / PS555DR / 300DR / PROAC D48R

Ciao Antz and thanks for answer.

The maximum budget 15,000 euros.

I have Fraim and an optimization also on the electronics with Isoacoustics Orea feet.

I think ND555 is just a little bit better than NDS and certainly NDS is better than NDX.

It is not the quality of the music scene or the sounds that I discuss.

I just wanted to try and think about improving on the speaker front.

You will move to Kudos Titans 808?

Fortunately for me, I already have over 4000 titles

https://www.discogs.com/it/user/aristoweb

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What do you mean? Funny?

I would love th T808’s they IMO are the finest speaker not only at thier price point but higher up the price scale

No my T505 arrive tomorrow will post photos in due course

I have a friend who moved from NDS/555 to ND555/555, stunning source and if the €€€ is no limit 2 x 555 put’s the ND555 at the top of the class (until 5pm today??? )

As @Suedkiez suggested do some measuring first. Install niosh on your phone and see what level you are playing now. Volume set at 12 o’clock seems way and way too high. Chances are you risk hearing loss. Or you are already suffering from it if you have to turn the volume up that high…
Reason I upgraded was that the systems performs much better at low level listening. I am now on speaking terms again with my neighbours… :smile:
FYI my room is 76 sqm and the dial rarely goes beyond the 8 o’clock mark.
Just my 2 cents but maybe not what you wanted to hear.

These numbers mean little. First of all, the Proacs have 4 Ohms and the 90 W number is for the 300 into 8 Ohms, expect 180 into 4. Then, the 90W number is for continuous output, in transients it can output several times that. Finally, a speaker is a complex load with impedance tips, complex phase behavior, etc.

A 300 is a very good amp that is stable into complex loads down to 2 Ohms continuous, but what you are doing is simply very loud. Can you install a dB metering app on the phone, as @SneakyPete suggested and measure the dB at close to 12 o’ clock?

I thought the 90w thing was on paper, as it were…aren’t Naim power amps a much higher output in reality? Thought I’d read somewhere (but maybe imagined) it was specified at 90w or whatever figure per channel.

Others more technical-minded than me could confirm.

It is indeed 90 per channel into 8 Ohms, the Proac page only says “Recommended Amplifiers: 10 to 250 Watts” without further details, but as above, it is not useful to go by these numbers

@aristoweb For these volume levels I would look into horn speakers. Avantgarde Acoustic come to mind, however with some caveats:

  • The only models within your budget are their Zero line, all others are much more expensive
  • They have a huge sensitivity of > 105 dB / 1 Watt / 1 meter, which is good for playing them loud but will make the Naim hiss of the 252 more pronounced and most likely quite audible when music is off or silent
  • They are active at least for the subwoofer.

So the 252/300 may or may not be suitable, best to talk to them if you consider this

My room is 7m x 8m x 2.70m high.

Distance from the listening point (sofa) is 3 meters.

The two Proac D48R speakers have a distance between them of about 3 meters.

Which cable did you change?

That’s right, just before the 12 o’clock position you already get the impression that the Proacs are at their best they can handle.

The Proacs already have a sensitivity of 90dB which is quite high and furthermore they are 4 ohms.

Yes, I absolutely agree that numbers mean little.

Then when we talk about Naim even more because we all know the great value of these electronics.

Ok later I’ll take some measurements with the app you recommended from my listening point on the sofa.

What other speakers besides these could you recommend if I wanted to upgrade from ProacD48R?

What do you think of Focal Sopra 2? Would I upgrade or downgrade?

I don’t know, both seem to be very good speakers and most likely it comes down to taste. My point was that, in general, the design of conventional hi-fi speakers is not aimed at creating ear-shattering volume levels, and if this is what you want it might be a good idea to investigate speakers that are either designed for this or at least tolerate it better by design

I would think that with that sensitivity and a 12 o’clock volume setting your ears must be bleeding!

Crikey, I hadn’t picked up on the level of volume your saying you’re listening at… if the volume pot is at 12’o clock that would be seriously loud on a well set up system. I’m not surprised it’s creating a few issues if you’re pushing your amp/speakers to those levels.

It might be worth double checking everything is wired correctly - I appreciate you have a large room, but even so, to have the volume up at that level tends to suggest something is wrong unless you really are trying to push night club volume levels??

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I have used Sopra 2 with a NAP 300 and 272 in a large room (25X17 feet) with excellent results overall. The amp was never stressed and would listen up to 85db average but usually less.
I then used Sopra 3 with same amp and 552/ ND 555 and was even better. I currently have the NAP 500.
I have never listened to the Proacs but seem similarly speced and are highly regarded by Naim users.
My gut feeling is that the speakers are not the problem.
It would be interesting to what db level you are talking about though.
Not sure this helps you but I wouldn’t buy new speakers without in home demo if at all possible.
I would agree with Jason

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I agree that listening at 12 o’clock is , from the beginning, not the best. Something is wrong or maybe a disco club system should be more appropriate.

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I would like to try to identify a speaker model that could be an upgrade for my current Proacs, not deviating too much from the type of cost of the Proacs.

I understand that. What I am saying is that it will be difficult to do with a conventional hi-fi speaker design if you insist on putting the volume on 12, and there are other designs, like horns, that are more suitable to this

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