The basic question is, is there an audible difference between all those hi res 2L files and their downsampled 16/44 versions. In my case I have already said I thought there was a small difference on some, but not all. Interestingly I haven’t read/heard anyone else’s views with the same files so I’ve no idea whether my experience is typical. My observation about preferring to listen to music than spend time comparing these files again has nothing to do with whether or not I can hear or want to hear a difference, as it was a literal comment about available listening time. And finding greater difference would make no difference to me as unless there is a significant cost disadvantage I already opt to buy hi res, and there is no way I will go back and replace all non hi-res music in my collection.
(N.B. I`m not disputing your headphones comment, but as I don’t have decent headphones it is irrelevant to me.)
On this subject, @feeling_zen’s observation in the Quality of Music thread was interesting:
I used to think/feel this way… (the nature of being able to get the equivalent of a megabuck stereo system, with a headfi setup, for relative peanuts)
the nature of removing variables like room/‘lack of space tuning’ is a huge benefit,… and then the advantage of having less background noise to deal with… (most people remember the joy they find with over ear noise cancellers like the sony 1000 series, where they can listen at SUPER LOW volume levels as the ambient room noise, generally 30-40dB, can be removed and hence a clear dynamic range can be achieved even at low listening levels… )
so to keep my post as brief as possible (I write on belief that some people visit forums to read and spend time), I will reference a time where I was attempting to compare two DACs; an iFi Diablo and a Chord Hugo- I had listened using familiar headphones for over a week.
Finally, I was feeling confident in my observations- I was starting to see consistent aspects to their respective sounds’ and had done so over enough days that it was less ‘my emotional state’ at any given moment. (tired/exhaused/anxious/stressed we do not hear the same as when we are relaxed and calm)
So, Diablo a bit more ‘broken in’, I finally took it to the Den setup- a Proceed AVP2 preamp into valve monoblocks into Castle Kendall speakers, which allowed me to setup both the Chord and the iFi ‘DACs’ to assignable (blind) inputs and rotate between them by pushing up or down repeatedly on the remote (and therefore loose track of ‘which is which’ aka BLIND)
Having them setup ready to go, after a few tracks, I had found that some traits that had taken me days to establish via top tier reference headphones, were really easy for my mind to clearly ‘see’ playing out before me in roomspace.
With mu child coming home and walking through the room, asked their opinion.
Took less than 30 seconds of one track and they (child) nailed most of my observations (from ‘weeks’).
A second track had them pick the rest of most of my notes as well.
Damn I thought,… and now I use both headfi and hifi as there are true benefits to both playback platforms.
(but for the purpose of this thread; agree that a highly resolving set of headphones should show voicing differences of ‘upstream kit’ if only for where the stage is placed… (etc, etc))
I know my own system very well by necessity because it only changes very infrequently and because I listen very frequently to it. If it was changing components all the time I would have no basis for comparison with review kit that comes in. In short it’s much easier to hear the changes of plugging a review item in if it’s replacing a well loved and well established reference.
The most complex reviews are ‘complete system’ reviews: so for example I’m living with the 300 series just now. Soundstage expect me to review each component (streamer, pre-amp, power amp) as three separate reviews, so each is plugged into my reference system individually and will appear as three separate articles. It’s more work this way, but permits me to avoid too many simultaneous changes which would make accurate evaluation difficult. It is of course also useful to discuss how well the system works in its entirety.
There’s a big difference between listening for pleasure and critical listening too. I need to be alone without distractions when evaluating components critically and am lucky the day job gives me whole days at home when the house is unoccupied. My wife hates it when I’m in ‘reviewer mode’ and gets irritated that I don’t want her talking to me through recordings, so I find it best to do it when she isn’t home!
My ears are measured every two years and I was told about ten years ago that my hearing was ‘way above’ the norm for my age in terms of frequency response and low level acuity, however I do know that my high frequency abilities have been steadily declining since in line with age… Unfortunately my day job involves using headphones for up to 8 hours a day in a noisy environment and that more than any hi-fi listening is probably responsible for the decline (along with age). We use Noise cancelling Dave Clark and Sennheiser headsets at work, but the company is about to endorse the Bose A30 headset for personal use. I’m seriously considering buying a set despite their cost because I value my hearing and have borrowed the A20 (forerunner) in the past and know it’s the best aviation headset I have ever used by a mile… Unfortunately that may have to take priority over buying a set of Sennheiser HD800S for home listening which have been on my wish list for sometime!
The thing about hearing is that you don’t miss it until its gone and I want to be able to enjoy music for a long time to come… Life would be pretty dull without music and I’m much more wary of subjecting my hearing to the (occasionally) frankly stupidly high levels at live concerts or in clubs nowadays. I certainly worry when I come out of a gig with temporary deafness, as that’s something I very rarely if ever experience at home listening levels.
I’m no medic, but to me temporary deafness indicates the levels were damaging. Given the cost of live gigs and the often disapppointing quality of live sound, I’m increasingly enjoying music at home nowadays and having a great audio system only encourages that. I’m a huge Abba fan and would love to see the Abba thing in London, but a friend went recently and paid £160 each per ticket! Given petrol, parking and dinner plus maybe an overnight hotel to avoid the ridiculous rush for a train at the end that’s easily a £600 night out for two hours entertainment. Looked at objectively that’s half the price of a pretty nice Lyra cartridge. I know which I would rather have…
Having said that I recently went into London to see “Remember Monday” live for £22 per ticket - they were superb and that was a fabulous night out with a great live band. I prefer those sort of intimate gigs to huge stadium/arena affairs nowadays.
I know my system that well that I’ve brought it home and given it a room in my house, we’re great friends. I do know that it does most of the talking and I do all of listening.
And I wrote that because unfortunately I belong to the hyper-analytic cognitive type. My enjoyment of music (and of a large number of other things) is mainly intellectual. It possibly keeps me safe from emotional turbulences, but makes me lose something too.
I also believe, though, that in a strange and unusual way the general Naim Experience satisfies both the instinctive and the rational.
Unfortunately the second’s adequacy is something that has eluded me for much of my life, while the first is something I try to negate by blind comparisons before buying. I can’t be an audiophile - phew!
Is easy to take this stance or ‘throw away’ other attributes just as likely to help gauge kit, as if jealous of the invincibility of youth…
But it isn’t necessarily ‘hearing higher frequencies’ (in particular) that helps pick hifi kit capabilities.
Hans Van Beekhuyzen has a chewyoube channel and has done vids pertaining to hearing loss and what it really means to listening to hifi.
Not putting that link up here (although I certainly have linked to it a few times), the takeaway is that 90% of the frequencies that fill up a general album are not in the registers that we gradually lose in our ‘higher frequency pickup’ of our hearing range.
Hans as a reviewer, (pro since the seventies is my understanding), still has, due to ear training and knowledge, acuity to pull apart equipment, ‘by sound’ that newbies (with top tier hearing’ have purely the tool but lack the understanding to use…
Hans video on hearing loss and music enjoyment is great because it shows that even with substansive loss of high frequency sound, we still hear the MAJORITY of the music that is played and can therefor absolutely still get to enjoy the music…
The child preferes headfi, as it is a ‘stable system’ to get to know how it sounds; I like ‘both’ but with the caveat that I seldom sell on parts that I have upgraded from as they are my familiar basis that I need if I wish to be able to compare one to another.
Stability of system /‘reference’ is key here. (as JonathanG highlights so well in the above post)…
This notion of audio memory is only ‘seconds’ is only part of the ‘review’ truth.
It is also hyper easy to know when any given playback is ‘the best’ you have ever heard it. (traits will reveal ‘betterness’ vs previously unexperienced)
Familiar systems/recordings and ‘knowing how they sound’ (in a given room/via certain speakers/through a certain pre/power etc); and changes reveal themself.
I can pick kit differences a room away, often casually listening,… (as can partner/family) - it just takes longer and I do not have notes written in the process…
(and doesn’t cover soundstage/depth and width etc)
In the above instance; a hifi rig of decent caliber proved itself a very revealing listen to pull apart two pieces of kit (DACs), and could do so in a timeframe faster than great headphones could, with confidence, lead to the same observations.
(devils advocate; headfi AND home hifi can both prove ‘revealing enough’)
I agree with this, although I find it surprising given how hard it is to compare two different conditions of a HiFi system.
But many times over the past five years, as I have upgraded my all-Naim system, I’ve been struck by a change that has made my system clearly the best sound I have ever heard.
I never have more than a day off from listening to music so I cannot comment on spotting differences after a lay off.
However, I am not an audiophile or compulsive upgrader. I tend to do things wholesale. I had my SN3/NDX2 for about five years and then explored the 300 series - I swapped to a 5 box 300 series in one jump. I do not know which component adds whatever to the mix, I am just concerned that as a whole it sounds fantastic.
I have little interest in any slight improvement that an upgrade may bring and just concentrate on enjoying the music rather than comparing equipment. When I have compared one item with another in the past, I found differences but could not always determine which I preferred across a wide range of music. For me it has to be a massive increase hence the leap that I undertook last year .
