This thread is hopefully the start of a team effort to get ‘non HiFi people’ into HiFi and …
Edit: Following feedback I have removed the text “ideally Naim (& Focal) products”
For your information I have inadvertently managed to get a friend into the hobby that we all love - but perhaps not with the outcome we might want.
The starting point (five years ago) was him making fun of me for the amount of money I spent on an interconnect cable.
Slowly, over time, by me chatting each week about what I was doing on my HiFi journey (and the hassle I was giving Linn at that time) he became sufficiently interested to participate in some of the listening assessments that I have reported on my two other threads on the forum.
Then he started to ask me questions about his own home audio which consisted of two Apple Home Pod Minis. FYI he was already a user of Apple Music.
Later, when I undertook the assessments of the Naim CI-102 vs the Linn Klimax DSM3 with Organik DAC, it was he who made the observations on the Naim CI-102 here.
After a while it seemed he was more interested in headphone listening rather than a ‘big’ loudspeaker setup. He has been mostly using internet searching and YouTube as sources of information. He developed a plan… initially he wanted the convenience of wireless connection to the headphones. Then he realised the limitations of some of the wireless standards used for audio replay and the potential impact on properly experiencing high resolution audio files. He switched his plan to desiring wired headphones and an interest in high resolution streaming services such as Qobuz.
Three weeks ago his plan became specific to Sennheiser headphones and a good single box source. He asked me some questions about the Naim Atom HE. It seemed like he might make a purchase. I provided supportive and encouraging information re the Atom HE (I have been an owner of a Naim Nova) and web links to the Naim Forum where the Naim Atom HE is talked about in glowing terms, including links where Steve Sells gave his thoughts on the Atom HE.
In spite all of the above, I think overall budget was still a concern…
Then, last Wednesday, he sent me some pictures of what he has just bought (via internet purchases) - first a FiiO K17 and then a WiiM Pro Plus.
Well it does sound like he is at the beginning of his journey, and an upgrade is often easier than starting from scratch. Give it a few months, then watch…
You are probably correct - but I don’t know for certain if he followed the web links I sent him for this forum
However, I do think you are correct because on Saturday morning (without prompting) he used the phrase ‘Night and Day difference’ when talking about the characteristics in some music files he had been exploring.
It’s interesting to read such a story. I think you did a good job all in all @Edmund-of-Essex , but your friend clearly needs a bit of time to digest this world. It doesn’t come easy, I think. Also it depends where his satisfaction lands: this might be his best setup or it might evolve. Only time will tell.
Thanks for the pointers, I’ll keep you all posted as he uses each different phrase.
One thing he was already complaining about was the fact that with his new system, including the Sennheiser HD 800 S headphones, one particular favourite track was now ‘unlistenable’ (owing to all the extra detail and clarity) and he could now only listen to the track on his car system!
Thank you for your compliments on my efforts. However I had no ‘intent’ to get him into (Naim) HiFi, it just happened the way I described it.
I do agree with your comment ‘a bit of time to digest this world’. Until you are in ‘it’, from the outside, HiFi can appear very weird and intimidating. My wife (who has been into HiFi for well over 25 years - originally owned a Rega system) observes that the physical store presentations and initial customer engagement experiences can be ‘uninviting’ from a new customer PoV.
Before my friend mentioned the Naim Atom HE as a single box source with headphones as his plan, I thought he might have asked me to help setup a Naim CI-102. The low price of the Naim CI-102 (relatively speaking re HiFi) and the particular sound seemed to appeal to him.
I had hoped to suggest he wait until after the Bristol HiFi show before making any purchasing decision as that is often the period when UK manufacturers introduce new or updated designs. Unfortunately that did not happen and he did not wait.
Or perhaps he had already looked into Focal headphones and the special Mimi enabled sound experience enhancements and decided against those.
welcome, I guess it’s natural be feel involved in this kind of things as you like the hobby.
The Hi-Fi world might seem (or not?) a bit weird, but above everything else it’s not understood, especially because, I sense, most people are not exposed to good quality systems (and good recordings too). If this was the case, the situation would be different. And I don’t mean people would get out immediately and buy a multibox system. People would probably buy simple Rega systems (or other systems from the competition) at a decent price tag to properly enjoy music. But music is rarely a priority, at least for most of the people I know. On the other hand I always say “no music, no life”. So music is important for me and a Hi-Fi system is part of the enjoynment.
I suspect many people can’t see the value in good music reproduction, indeed most are ok with a phone and a couple of cheap headphone. We all know the story.
I’ve been a Hi-Fi lover for years since highschool (maybe before) but you need to explore this world to appreciate and understand its potential (and limits). You need to be expose to different gear, understand what you want from a system and how you can achieve and optimize sound. At the same time you keep appreciating the music you like even more to the point you might even want to explore other genres that could potentially give you an even better insight (eg. I went from pop to soundtracks and from those to jazz; the better my gear got, the more I’ve been looking for music capable of giving me details and subtle emotions; in my case jazz works way better than pop. I still listen to pop occasionally, but the joy of listening to a great jazz record is just unmatched).
If your friend will digest it all (not in a week or month without a doubt), his curiosity will grow and eventually he’ll explore this world. Even though he’s already purchased his system, you should encourage him to visit the Bristol Hi-Fi show just to widen his horizons and gain more thoughts and ideas. It’s never wasted time, curiosity is the key to evolve in this hobby (and others too).
Thanks for the full reply. I do understand and very much agree with what you have written.
My own situation seems somewhat similar. I got into HiFi at school after visiting a friend’s house in the 1970s (where they had quite a decent B&O system) and listening to some Pink Floyd (Ummagumma - AFAIR). I subsequently bought two PF albums and played them on our meagre ULTRA Model 6018 mono system at home and wondered what had happened?
First upgrade was to get my parents to have the stereo conversion which consisted of an additional powered loudspeaker and some degree of change on the deck - I am not sure how much intervention was required from the basic shipped ‘mono’ unit - but we then had ‘stereo’.
Nevertheless, our system was so bad that the first time I played Pink Floyd The Wall the stylus skipped at one of the crescendos and it was not until some years later that I realised I was missing a whole section of music on that album!
Anyway, I was so impressed with the system at my friends family home that after much persuasion I managed to convince my parents to splash some cash and get a B&O system and I was on my way.
Your observations re other music genres - particularly jazz - are interesting. The forum has been very useful for me in respect of discovering interesting music. One particular enquiry on the forum (here) caused me to add the album Chi by Dave Liebman, Adam Rudolph and Hamid Drake to my regular playlist!
I’ve realized about Hi-Fi systems only when I entered a specialized shop as my parents were buying one. I think I wasn’t even interested at first but then I started to listen to my favourite music at home and that is when my interest and love started to grow. I still remember those days and the experience at the Hi-Fi dealer. Being a kid, the speaker room they had seemed enormous to my eyes. At the time I was listening to Michael Jackson, The Beatles and Simply Red.
I think I can relate to that: there’s always a point in this hobby when you realize you’ve been missing quite a lot of things even in the music you are supposed to know. That’s always a revelation!
I’m very grateful about music shared in this forum as it helped me to discover some really great artists, it wouldn’t have been possible otherwise: eg. Jeff Lorber, Emma Rawicz, John Scofield, Anouar Brahem, Manu Katché and many others.
I saw him again on Saturday morning and mentioned the Bristol HiFi show. He did not seem that interested. Anyway, from the show reports elsewhere on the forum, it looks like his decision of not waiting to see if Naim launch anything new before buying his Sennheiser HD 800S headphones, FiiO K17 and WiiM Pro Plus was a good judgement call.
However, during this week he did look at upgrading (already!) the standard cable included with the Sennheiser HD 800 S. He had messaged me to say he had opened the webpage and then closed it immediately when he saw the price - which was 21% of his original purchase price of the new headphones.
it’s interesting to see how your friend reacts to this new hobby. Let time do its job, he surely needs it to understand many things around this “strange” world. Once everything has settled, he might be looking for upgrades and be ready to invest more. I can’t blame him for being prudent, he must be convinced. I’ve always taken my time and this never let me down.
Speaking of cables: I’ve been reluctant for years and thought they were just crazy expensive and made no sense. That was true (take it with a pinch of salt) in the context of my first 2 Hi-Fi systems, but then I did completely change my point of view with my last 2 systems. Surely good cables are not cheap (even though sometimes cheap ones work pretty well in some systems) but if you choose them properly they can make a huge difference and they are essential, for me and in my experience, to make a system shine and show its potential. This conclusion needed a bit of time on my side, your friends might need both time and upgrades before realizing what is involved in what might look like a very simple piece of wiring.
If you have some spare cables that you are willing to share, he might try them and gain more ideas.
I think you’d probably have to ask what really prompted most of us to travel the hi-fi route.
For me it was when a fellow student who loved similar music to me who was returning home to Malaysia for the summer asked if I’d like to look after his system until the next term.
From memory it was an Onyx OA21 amp, Pink Triangle PT1 and some basic Mission standmount speakers. Simply blew me away coming from Fidelity and ITT music centres,
I didn’t get the same but it kicked off purchases of Arcam, Denon, Sony/Philips, Dual, Linn, PT and ultimately Naim kit (amongst others).
I was also talking to a chap in the pub the other night who worked for the BBC who was ecstatic about music but mostly his Naim Muso (I didn’t mention my stuff at all), but as the convesration went on he had all manner of things I’d have aspired to in the past (Revox reel to reel, Quad equipment and so forth).
Thanks for your suggestion, and if I may say so …‘Great minds think alike’!
Following my friends email to me regarding the improved cables available from Sennheiser, I looked up the Sennheiser cables online as I had the same idea that you also suggested of loaning him some ‘high quality’ XLR cables. FYI I am currently in the position to be able loan 1m pair lengths of regular XLR to XLR of Chord Music and Chord Sarum T cable types.
What is standard in the Sennheiser headphone purchase is jack plug terminated cables, specifically ‘specially tuned symmetrical cable with gold plated 4.4mm (balanced) and 6.35mm (unbalanced) jack plugs’. The XLR (i.e. not jack plug) terminated option is the cost upgrade.
I also discovered that the (optional upgrade) Sennheiser XLR connection cable type is a 4-pin and shield arrangement with the split terminations at the headphone end employing high quality ODU connector types. Hence my XLR cables are unsuitable to directly support (without modification) any such cable change experimentation.
Thanks for sharing your early HiFi discovery experience! Also thanks for sharing about your recent conversation with the BBC employee. Furthermore - I do think you have a point in questioning the title of my thread.
Nevertheless I feel I need to explain that the thread is really about how ‘we’ as a group (active on the Naim forum) might act now in the current period and what steps we might take individually to grow the potential Naim customer base by introducing people we might know to the world of HiFi?
This thread is to share any ideas and CURRENT situations to support that objective.
PS: I have decided to move the thread to ‘HiFi Corner’ from ‘Streaming’ as that seems a better fit?
Thank you for your continued suggestions and do please suggest any better title for the thread?
