Lol at this thread. It is a law of diminishing returns on any high end product. The trick is to know when there are zero returns no matter how much is spent. I still haven’t learnt that trick
I had little intention to go to the expense that I have decided to, but I really ‘need’ to know that I have the best I can afford. It’s the same with cars for me. A Lotus isn’t good enough when it comes out of the factory, it obviously needs improving with my own modifications, so I totally understand those that want to try different cables, dacs, power supplies etc. It’s a rich mans hobby but why not if you can afford it.
I still love my Nait2 and Kans, but I know that the 252/250-2 sounds better. When I stop hearing a difference then I’ll stop trying out ‘improvements’.
I think some posters are missing this line.
When we were in an apartment 3 years ago whilst the house was renovated I had a RPi -> SuperUniti -> Shananian Arcs and although it was great to have music I was always aware of what was missing.
To date I’m not overly getting this with the KEFs and they are giving me an insight into what has improved technologically in the 15 years I’ve been using Naim and more recently Chord and Auralic.
There are perhaps synergies involved in not having cables attaching every part of the system. Perhaps most DAC chips all fall into the very good category and this is what I’m hearing. Maybe Roon’s RAAT is really that good a streaming transport protocol that it improves on most coaxial, optical and USB connections.
I know there’s something happening but I don’t know what it is - to paraphrase the lyric.
But it’s exciting to know that there is a possibility of a future where I might not have to worry about how stressed my burndies are. Suddenly speakers like the Kii 3 and Dutch and Dutch 8c look like possibly being contenders for the SJB heavyweight hifi title.
Yep, and this is why the V1 continues to be the heart of my system, despite people saying the preamp isn’t any good, blah, blah, blah. If I was to move to a dedicated preamp then it would also be adding a power supply, and then a dedicated DAC (the V1 is always tied to its preamp) and then the cabling and so on… So I’ve optimized within my meager budget what’s coming before and after it and couldn’t be happier with the sound. Same with my UQ1 and Ls50’s in the office. My whole setup, from server to speakers cost what some people spend on a freaking power cable - I just can’t imagine!
Of course @Sloop_John_B it beggars the question, are these the first gen Ls50w’s or the new MkII’s? You may need to upgrade your downgrade!
I can relate to this. Point of diminishing returns is surely real. When you listen to something considerably cheaper sounding great, you will start questioning the value of the costly components (and wires if you got some) in your main system. In the end it depends how you see it.
I recently bought a second costly power cord to “finish” the system. Retail price is £3,000 and although I got it at a discounted price it’s still not small change. Similarly although it may cost 10 times more than the Wireworld Elektra 7 that it replaces, it doesn’t sound 10 times better. When I reinstate the WW and I’m sure I will still enjoy listening to the music. Do I regret getting the costly cord, not at all.
Indeed, but ultimately not that satisfying and certainly not Hi-Fi, more a toy… so currently packaged up waiting for a use.
I think the secret of Hi-Fi is to make your own mind up and have the confidence to know what sound you like in your house and what you don’t like… rather than follow the web herd instinct and assume just because it costs more it is necessarily better… learn to appreciate over a long time… and not feel pressured to make decisions too quickly or look to be impressed… I think that is where dissatisfaction can quickly lie not least through sub conscious biases.
I am definitely not wishing to offend anyone, but how many systems have you heard which are state of the art and sound to your ears abysmal? Occasionally you hear a system that is as good or even better than yours… but for me that is very rarely… so that tells me Hi-Fi has to be a very personal thing.
and RIP. Growing up in Austria’s mountains basically, pre-internet and everything, the public broadcaster had the Peel show stuck into the program at 4 in the morning, being required by law to provide cultural programming. My lifeline.
John Peel was a lovely man. I wrote to him once asking him to play a song on his show. Of course, he didn’t because it wasn’t a request show. But rather than than throw my letter in the bin he wrote me a nice letter to apologise for not playing it and to tell me that when he did his national service as ‘Gunner Ravenscroft’ he was stationed just down the road from Brynsiencyn, where I lived as a student. I thought that was such a nice thing to do.
I too have blown past my starting budget by 10x. Probably not a realistic budget, but worth every penny. For those who are spending disposable funds and can afford it, its a great joy. I do think that there are folks out there who are basically addicted to to upgrades and have maxed out their credit cards and leveraged themselves to get expensive tweaks. They are probably sacrificing things they should not. However, if that makes them happy, then good for them.
A friend of mine I met years later had been a huge fan and wrote letters to John Peel a lot, they always were answered in the most lovely way and after a long time JP even extended an invitation and they met, I think including Sheila
Simon you are absolutely right. I heard the top Linn system once and it sounded awful, as did a system at Naim with lots of their top stuff. I always enjoy listening to my setup at home, it’s far from the best but it works for me.
To return to John’s point it’s easy to get carried away and feel the need for the latest and greatest. I’ve just swapped 4 Powerlines and a MusicWorks block, which would cost £3,700, for a £170 Graham’s Hydra and can’t say I miss them. With a lot of these improvements you notice them for a week or so and then they become day to day. I do wonder whether, if you’d never scratched the itch in the first place, your musical enjoyment would actually be any less.
This exactly. I’ve recently gone through this after ‘upgrading’ my entire speaker system, exchanging my Harbeth C7ES3/SVS dual subwoofer combo with Spendor D7s. One could argue that it is a true upgrade if we’re to gauge it by expenditure, but others may disagree. I suppose what I’m saying is all it really will end up being is a difference in presentation and little more. This has seemingly been the case with nearly every instance of upgrading/downgrading. I know it has been illustrated before, it’s just you and portions of Simon’s post have articulated this really well. My perception of the older combo has already begun to fade after a week, and I’m certain with the next iteration of this madness the same will be said of that, too.
It’s interesting that there is a whole industry based around this, with a tweak available for everything that could possibly be tweaked, whether it needed tweaking or not. Get a new switch. Not good enough. Add a power supply. Not good enough. Get magic feet to go beneath them. It’s a bit like children collecting Top Trumps.
Is that Amsterdam in your picture? Oh to go travelling again.
No doubt. Audio Nervosa, indeed. The industry has capitalized off our ‘needs’ for decades. Your examples made me chuckle nonetheless.
It is Amsterdam. I took that pic in February; it’s the Singel. I’ve gone there a couple of times a year, at least, for as long as I can remember (my wife has a team located there for her work, so I go with her and also with my best friend or alone, typically in the fall or winter). It is my favorite place on this planet. I finished a first draft of a manuscript about a year ago where most of it takes place in and around Amsterdam. Oh, to go traveling again…you said it. I miss it terribly. In fact, I get so pathetic about it that watching Liverpool v Ajax right now helps with my fix.
It’s also possible that prior to dying the tweeter was not 100%.
One of my SL2 tweeters died. Replaced both with a matched pair from Naim. Something of a revelation.
G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) has been going on for awhile in photography now, ever since the intro of digital cameras. As a pro, I tell amateurs to just get something and use it for as long as possibly feasible and not keep changing out to new cameras every six months or year. Otherwise it never becomes an extension of your eyes and hand so as to fluidly make photographs. I know whenever I try a latest greatest new camera it ends up returned (last one was the Leica Q) and I’m back to my M’s (admittedly currently an M10) as I end up spending more time being frustrated at menus and such than actually taking photographs. A baseline to stick to is a good thing - there will always be ‘better’ but is it really?
and RIP. Growing up in Austria’s mountains basically, pre-internet and everything, the public broadcaster had the Peel show stuck into the program at 4 in the morning, being required by law to provide cultural programming. My lifeline.