This post is interesting.
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Yes, that has been my experience and how I use my NDS with any processing relating to managing internet-based services or local files to be processed āoff-boardā and away from the sensitive audio processing within the network player. This being either in the Roon server or the SonoreUPnP bridge. This ensures that no additional processing is required for a WAV based UPnP stream, regardless of source. And as we have been told and reminded with less processing less power is drawn, resulting in less noise.
And being an NDS, no irreversible OTA firmware changes or updates. 
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After all it might be the same story when you stream WAV instead of FLAC, the sound is a touch clearer and airier and I do feel that (so I only have WAV files despite their unconvenient size). Obviously thereās slightly less noise floor when you play WAV files, CPU on the streamer is obviously working less.
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I didnāt even know that I could stream ( I use Qobuz) using WAV . I thought that it had to be āpacked upā FLAC to do the travelling unlike my Cd rips played through the Core. I know that the CPU has to do a little more work to unzip the FLAC files which again increases CPU workload = more noise. You understand the science far better than I do B.
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āBut in many decades of listening to high-end HiFi items Iāve experienced the so-called run-in effect on many items when used in revealing systems.
In my view it is the dialectric materials that adjust to their new signal and noise environment over some time. These are physical items that are part of the insulation and also the chemical process inside of electrolyticsā. DB
I realise this forum thread may have just about burned itself out, but as a latecomer newbie still on FW3.8 wondering if I should update to FW3.11, here I arrived. Iām trying to reply to Darkebear Post 27, but I donāt seem able to connect there here. Sorry about that.
Having read most of the posts in this and many in the parallel forum thread āUnhappy with the new NAIM updateā begun in Dec 2024, I consider this post of yours to be a foundational one in terms of what it is we all seek on our paths to musical nirvana.
Iāve found that this path tends to draw us forward as we refine our thoughts, feelings, and the musical tastes we enjoy, until we reach a point where we feel weāve achieved something like an end and we become essentially satisfied with what we have.
You, @Cohen1263 , @Simon-in-Suffolk , and many other Posters (not leaving your contributions out), point out that our endpoint sound is the result of an infinite array of mechanical, electrical, electronic and other inputs before we even begin to consider the human element. The whole process of arriving at that point where we feel we can just enjoy the music seems a bit like trying to herd cats.
I have a couple of ātechyā friends who very much consider that ādata is data (0,1)ā and that what is digitised from an analogue source at the beginning is basically the same as what arrives to our streamer or amplifier.
Hmm? Not in my experience. Placebo effect? Maybe in some circumstances. If we pay heaps, then we force the music to sound better in our heads. āIāve paid for it to sound betterā, so it does, by definition. That considered and aside, I believe that the incremental changes and improvements Iāve made to my sound system have each had a cumulatively positive effect on SQ. And, one way or another, materials effect what we hear.
Forty years ago there was a TV ad where the punchline was āoils aināt oilsā which has become a common expression meaning that all things are not created equal. At the low end, who cares. At the mid to high end audio that this discussion pertains to, highly resolving gear needs the least possible interference to the incoming signal possible because that interference will show itself.
As examples: I changed from a Cat 5 to Cat 8 ethernet cable from modem/router to ND555 and the resultant sound became clearer, cleaner, more harmonious. Tech friends said: not possible. Improved shielding, reduced EMFās, etc? From my 30 year old RCA cables I upgraded to a Hi-Line DIN to RCA interconnect, another big improvement, later followed by a better interconnect where the shielding materials and impedance minimisation at the RCA end were of the utmost importance. A power board with sine wave improving technology ā better sound. Online double conversion power supply with very heavy extension cord providing minimal voltage drop to ND555 ā better sound. Then there is the very low voltage circuitry that Naim use to improve electron flow and reduce emfās to a minimum, So, different materials and dielectrics, insulation, electronic technology improvements, etc ā music delivered which can sound like you brought the band/ performer/ orchestra home to play for you at home. Even with two different ND555ās for two years each, there was a slight difference in SQ. I have been offered a demo high end streamer (non Naim) to try where the output impedance and voltages can be varied which should affect the end resultant sound. I havenāt even mentioned effects within the original recording process and technology affecting the final outcome, and not going there.
āDarkebear:
But just listen and enjoy or not - life is for living and not picking arguments for the sake of themā. DB
This is what itās all about. Suffice it to say, that everything affects everything else, unforgivingly so in this higher end of the Audio gear spectrum. Sometimes we may forget our end goal is for our music to take us on journeys to wonderful places in our hearts and minds.strong text
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Data is typically binary encoded. However to transform data into audio you need to add time (clocks etc) and that is where there are variables. If your friends really are technical and understand digitized audio they will know that. .. so you have 1,0,t where t is an analogue measure.
But the transport and storage of sound data when itās not a data stream is indeed maintained almost universally without corruption, and that is encoded in binary representation such as files or data segments.
You also mention things like Ethernet cablesā¦ these carry analogue voltage levels representing symbols. Symbols are then mapped to a binary number.. this is then mapped to payload binary data. In short Ethernet cables you need to treat in precise high frequency analogue transmission linesā¦ at this level this defo is not digital 1 and 0, but high frequency analogue voltages. As you know real world transmission lines will have reflections at impedance boundaries. A reflection is reflected energy.
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Simon, youāre correct.
I would submit, however, that the totality of the data of a recording includes the time domain. And, thus, we canāt speak of ādata preservationā without including the absolute correct timing of said data.
I recently got a Uniti Atom HE and Iām really enjoying it but as I understand there is no way to have only one output active at a time, either RCA only or XLR only. Is this something that would be possible add in firmware update and are there any plans to do so?
The recording is sampled using a time value. However in data transmission (non bitstream) and data storage this time is inferred.
Therefore it has to be addedā¦ like adding water to coffee granules. Any imperfections in this added or reconstituted time affects obviously the reconstructbed audio and how closely it resembles how it was encoded.
Therefore the data is preserved, but the timing is not preserved, but implied by the sample rate, which will be defined as additional meta data to the digital or binary data.
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Just to be clear @Cohen1263 I donāt use Qobuz, I much prefer local streaming. Right now I stream music from a computer using JRiver. So I suppose the CPU of my NDX2 shouldnāt be stressed too much.
Yep, thatās exactly what I knew indeed. Iām not an expert, but I think I gained some interesting knowledge thanks to the Hi-Fi world and, of course, this forum.
This should always be the end goal. No music, no life!
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You might want to try Audivarna, as I found it to be sonically better than JRiver when locally streaming my .WAV files to my NDX2. āOnlyā $70 a year. FWIW and YMMV (donāt you love acronyms!).
Do you use AudirvÄna for all audio you listen to through your streamer? Iām curious to try it. Do you use the AudirvÄna app to control the stream or can you use the Naim app with UPnP?
I use Audivarna for streaming locally stored files and the Focal/Naim app for streaming albums from Tidal I donāt own. The last time I checked, I found the Focal/Naim app better for streaming from Tidal rather than locally, but it was a while back and my system has evolved a little since then (addition of a separate DAC). If I start playing an album from Tidal I can then see it play and go forward/backward in the Focal/Naim app (but whatās the point, then), but donāt know how to start streaming from my external hard drive from the Focal/Naim app (i.e., it does not seem the drive). It might be my incompetence, though, so maybe some people know a way! Hope this helps.
Do you use AudirvÄna Studio or Origin? Because with Studio you will be able to stream Tidal and Qobuz in AudirvÄna as well. Iām using Qobuz and in my set up it sounds better through AudirvÄna than using Qobuz Connect.
I wanted to try Audirvana as Iāve read some happy people here in the forum, however when I saw that subscription plan I decided not to go any further to be honest. I donāt want to follow that route. JRiver might not be perfect despite being an excellent software, but you pay it once and thatās it.
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Interesting how so many people have issues with subscription models (the same is true for Adobe photo software, my other hobby). I personally happy to pay programmers to improve software on a consistent basis and itās peanuts compared to what I spend on either hifi/music or photography, anyway. I look at it as gas/electricity for my vehicles :).
Thank you. Yes this helps.
I use Audivarna Studio. I did try streaming Tidal through Audivarna but didnāt like it as much as through the Focal/Naim app, but as I said it was before some significant changes in my streaming chain, so worth another look. I want to also try Qobuz yet again. But frankly streaming from local files is much better so I use Tidal much less these days and I still have a job (I say it, because people around me keep asking me if I am retired now that I turned 65!) and it keeps me quite busy. So, when I have time Iād rather listen to local files. More costly, though, but better for the artists! Thanks for prodding me to try Qobuz and streaming it through Audivarna.
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As you mentioned it, I stopped using Adobe softwares ages ago for that very reason. Iāve never regretted it, actually I found a much better software for my needs. Iām glad you are happy with your choice!
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If this is something you want, you should contact Naim Support, who will log the request. Iām not sure why youād want it, possibly swapping between two amplifiers, and I donāt recall anyone asking for it previously. On that basis it seems unlikely, and it may not even be possible.