Thanks that’s a really helpful and reassuring post
Coming later in life to higher end Hifi I never really thought about the quality of recordings, I simply didn’t have the kit to distinguish the good from the bad. Now I can hear the difference for the first time, and I think it’s been troubling me because I was thinking something wasn’t right in the system rather than accepting and appreciating the recorded performance for what it is, or ‘treat it as part of the art’ as you say. I’ll try listening again with my viewpoint on this shifted, it might just make a difference. Maybe I’ll relax into it a bit more rather than feeling troubled about what could be wrong in the system or set up.
Seems better suited speakers would help but they can wait for another day as the SCM11’s provide enough magical moments for now.
I agree about shifting the point of view. Not always easy though. In some cases I can’t look beyond the horrible recordings, such as with the major label work by Chili Peppers or Hüsker Dü, because one thinks this could have gone better and it’s easy to regret it
In other cases it just clicks when you try. Just the other night I listened to Hole’s first album, for the first time in a very long time, and initially was also disappointed. But then I realized that what I heard was essentially a band live in the studio - one bass amp, two guitar amps, a drum kit, and vocal mics. Just this, as it was. No 24 tracks, no overdubs. And then it sounded just right
In my opinion there are two different kinds of bad recordings. The ones mentioned above get some help from a better system. I listened to Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me from The Cure this evening, Robert Smith’s voice, the cymbals and guitar were a little better than they used to be. Still little or no bass, though. If the record is massively compressed, like Californication, it gets worse on a better system.
A classic ‘poor technology’ recording is Clive Gregson and Christine Collister - Home and Away and has been played, and played, and played
A good system should show differences between albums but make each one as enjoyable as possible.
I’ve got some 60s Ska and Reggae, mostly in mono, and they’re fabulous.
You don’t need Mobile Fidelity recordings to enjoy the music
Agree with this too. Such recordings can win immensely on a good system, I think it’s often those that were recorded in a natural manner, even if with poor quality gear.
But like Mulberry said, some poor recordings get worse, such as those with overcompression. Or whatever the crime was that they performed on the early Nick Cave, as if someone sprinkled glass dust over everything
Now you know the cold reality and will likely never again experience happiness. You can spend millions but your favorite albums of your youth will never sound as good as when you were young. Good news is that the mid life crisis phase of your hifi journey is complete. You’ll never be young again.
At this point you can either spend a fortune unsuccessfully trying to recapture your youth or you can live in the present and enjoy music that sounds good. You just need to accept the fact that even the best recorded album on the best system will never sound as good as you remember those crappy recordings played on a cheap system when you were young.
A system that rubs your nose in how bad the recordings are might be OK in a studio but does it belong in your home? I’ve heard this trait a few times and I suspect the ATCs may have a hand in it but before considering alternatives there are a few free things to try.
The power distribution may have an influence, on the linear power strip I use I’ve tried a few different orders and the one I find preferable in that the music hangs together more has the source in nearest the power in and the power amp last. The other way round was less even sounding with apparently more detail but the timing was a bit awry in comparison. My rational, which came after the findings is that it follows the distance of the various boxes from the signal earth provided by the ND (you do have this set to chassis and no Naim CD player in the system I presume, a DVD 5 upset things in my setup until I fed it’s digital out to the ND rather than its analog to the pre). The Cisco and any NAS, Core or the like go on a separate ring, radial or spur from these.
Are the Burndys off the floor?
Single or two stacks? Put the 252 above the NDS above the 300 and the 300ps above the 555ps above the supercap. If two stacks and if there’s a spare shelf put the 252 higher than the 300ps rather than on the same level.
After that it’s the hard slog of trying other speakers.
@Katzky2021 nice post and brought a smile to my Monday morning. Probably some home truths in there too.
@Yeti all units plugged into main sockets so no power strip. The chassis switch, now that I need to double check! Two stacks of three and the Naim dealer I bought the 252 from advised me that it should go middle with NDS top. Easy enough to switch around though and try. Sadly I could see no way of stopping the burndys from touching eachother or the floor with my stacking configuration. Only thing I could try here is those pipe lagging rings to provide some separation. But as I say, the system can sound sublime on the right albums so I decided it probably wasn’t a factor. I will look into all of your suggestions so thank you.
Edit. My stacking config is quite different to what you suggest. As I say it was suggested by a dealer. It is:
NDS 555DR
252 Supercap2
300 300 PS
When I get a spare few hours I’ll try moving things around and see what difference it makes. Still don’t think I can do much with those Burndys though on a 2x3. It’s an integrated unit so can’t move the two stacks apart. Here’s a pic, complete with furry imposter!
I’m interpolating a bit with the stacking order, when I had a 282 I preferred it below the source but the 552 needs to be above. “Just”pull it out, and its glass and put them on top as a try out.
The various Burndys are differently stiff and mostly can cross without touching, though the Snaic might be more tricky, for this I just make sure that there isn’t another cable between it and the run of the corresponding Burndy but I don’t constrain either.
Are your mains sockets chained single sockets or doubles? If singles than there will be a connection order you can still follow, if doubles than my scheme won’t fit so well but with only three trying all possibilities isn’t too hard.
If you search around the forum here a bit there are numerous threads on AC power and how it can affect sound quality. There are numerous forum members who have gotten substantial improvements from upgrades in that direction. Naim offers very good upgraded power cords.
You’ve had lots of suggestions to change speakers, change mains leads, change stacking order and all sorts. In your shoes I’d do absolutely nothing: these things won’t change anything in respect of the issue you have raised. You have a lovely system and it’s perfectly fine. Just accept that some music is recorded better than other music. Set aside the hifi aspects, focus on the music and enjoy it.
I bought Mrs HH an album recently - Pure Gold on EMI - on original LP from 1973 that she once owned but had lost over the years. Some of the recordings are dreadful but as soon as I accepted that, the music was still great. Just focus on the music and all will be well. The alternative is to voluntarily shut the door on music that will give you great pleasure. Don’t let HiFi obsessiveness take over.
If you are up for a couple of days of experimenting with positioning of kit, try sc bottom left, space above, 252 above that. 300 PS bottom right, space above, 300 above that. Streamer and ps remote on the floor or on a spare coffee table, similarly gapped. Listen for a day or so. If there’s an improvement you know that you are going to have to rethink final positions. If not at least you’ve tested before going down another route such as speakers.
If I had to pick one band with consistently poor recording quality it would be Oasis. Every time I upgrade my system, their albums sound a bit worse.
More generally, I think many / most mass-market 90s CDs were poorly produced. Perhaps it was still the era of ‘digital = perfect sound’ so limited effort was put into the production process.
SCM19s (passive) are relatively warm in my opinion and a bit more forgiving than my Kudos S10As, for example. I haven’t compared them to the 11s unfortunately but if going down the route of trying a few changes I’d start by borrowing a pair of these if you can.
Absolutely 100% this. What on earth is the point in a system if not to play what you want to listen to. There are many thousands of sub-standard recordings that have the ability to take you anywhere, why deliberately not play them because of some sort of pseudo-analysis. I’ve discussed this many times with friends, but I believe this is the difference between a HiFi-fan and a music-fan. You can of course be both; I consider myself to be both, but not playing anything that isn’t recorded beautifully puts you in the former camp. I listened to a bootleg Rolling Stones LP yesterday, the Muddy Waters sessions, and it sounded terrible. I loved it.
With music I think one needs to differentiate between poor recordings that is that initially the recordings were poor and then absolute butchering at the mastering or re-mastering stage.
I agree that a good system should just flesh out poor recordings to sound as good as they can but in reality, as mentioned above, if they are butchered with over compression the better the system the more this is highlighted.
And as the OP mentioned quite a few of the guilty albums were of this over compressed type which is done specifically to make them sound good on poorer equipment.
I really don’t think most of the suggestions other than speaker positioning are going to improve anything here. Room speaker interaction can certainly have a huge effect and may attenuate the overall effect but Oasis will still sonically sound poor.
We have pretty much the same system other than speakers, and I know exactly what you mean - some recordings just “grate” when others sound wonderful. Personally I don’t think this is about listening to hifi not music, more that a poor recording can sound tiring and harsh whatever I think about the music. Plus my musical taste changes over the years - something I though was brilliant years ago maybe doesn’t move me as much now. That can true of different albums by the same artist - so I wouldn’t get too hung up about changing your system, play what you like until it just sounds wrong and move on to something else.
My way of coping with this issue, is in a way put my head in the sand, and ignore it.
Unless trying out new bits of kit I try to listen to music I enjoy and not to my system. Sure some recordings sound a bit disappointing, whilst there is greater detail etc., overall the improvement over my second system is not as big, but I still enjoy the music. Conversely, at other times, I play something haven’t played for a while and think wow, why haven’t a played this more?
