Interesting response on switches and ethernet cables

Anyone can assert anything, offering any or no evidence as they see fit.

But credibility and proof of a claim comes from statistically relevant testing.

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Same here, no question. Both. And then some by adding an external Masterclock to the ER.

But then who today denies that a mains cable materially impacts the sound quality ā€¦? If you had asked me 20 years ago I would have thought this is crazy. And then I listened to a powerline and moved on. Same thing will happen for streaming and everything related

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No it doesnā€™t, I donā€™t need any statistically relevant testing to assert true claims. And I have plenty of documented evidence to back it up. Youā€™re in the wrong hobby if you need ā€œstatistically relevant testingā€ to believe your ears.

That is not what I said.

I believe what I believe, and accept whatever evidence I accept. Same for you.

What I am saying is that if you want to convince someone else that what you believe is true, for that statistically relevant testing will make the claim more credible.

I could say that the sky is red, for example. I donā€™t need evidence to prove it to myself. But if I wanted to convince you that the sky is red, youā€™d probably want more from me than my assertion that itā€™s red.

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Iā€™ve convinced loads of folks of loads of things with no statistically relevant testing. You should move on to another topic at this point.

Mmm I see what you meant

Oh, sorry I did not mean to say there were some law stopping you. But simply counting references in the AES lib will do you no good as much is published elsewhere today, if published at all - simply as a result of a field like digital audio growing very fast and in areas outside the traditional audio industry.

But it is still a very useful resource.

Hey, wait a minute ā€¦ this is really Sheldon, from the Big Bang Theory tv show eh? I just finished watching an older episode, and youā€™re post is the spittinā€™ image ā€¦

The risk with that of course is, if you slapped down your own hard earned on it, you are influenced, there is nothing you can do about that.

In the mean time, I replaced four cat6 ethernet cables to my office with a fibre run, I can safely report that my hifi sounds identical, of course.

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Erm yes, quite willing but no knowledge of the changes I had done. She just independently confirmed what I believed was correct without any bias at all.

All I asked her was which sounds better.

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I would like to remind members of forum rules - please do not link to or import discussions/arguments here from other forums. Thanks.

Fair enough, that was an unwarranted comment from me. Iā€™ll edit it out.

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Thatā€™s crazy!

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My cover is blown! I may have to assume a new identity nowā€¦

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That is one of the big advantages of home demos. I recently tried something out, borrowed from a dealer and with a strong expectation bias that it would do wondrous things. I ended up returning it. It did change the sound but, imo/my system, not for the better - I wonder, if I had shelled out for it, if I would have convinced myself that the change was for the better?

Are you a politician by any chance?

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I am not immune, many is the time I have purchased things, initially been disappointed but though, hey ho, may as well keep it then become more positive about it.

To be fair more in terms of PC parts, for instance I had 2200 speed ram and I upgraded to 3300 speed. Was expecting miracles got nothing as far as I could tell. But I could afford it, the other ram is in my sons computer and over time I have convinced myself its better.

It is what it is.

The problem I have with all of this, is the difference people are talking here is poxy, its not night and day, its not blacker blacks and sweeter highs its having to convince yourself you heard something.

Thatā€™s fine I guess, men will spend their money thatā€™s for sure. Its quite amusing really, we are all into something spending our money on silly things.

Simon here confuses things, talking as technically as possible, but never really saying definitively that there is a difference only that there could be!

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Q1. What evidence do you have that these are ā€˜miniscule changesā€™ in sound quality?

Q2. What evidence do you have that if we canā€™t measure what is causing changes in SQ objectively, it is statistically much more likely that we are fooling ourselves into hearing something that isnā€™t there? What statistics are you referring to and what assumptions or measurements are they based on?

Maybe they are huge, but then we should be able to measure them in the analog output. If a series of different cable and switch combinations produce an analog output (after the DAC) that is 99.9999% identical, such as was the case in the first measurement article i posted, it would not be possible to hear an objectively large difference as a listener.

Quality also is an ambiguous term, so it would have to be defined to have a proper meaning in this context.

Our hearing and brain are known to be inconsistent as an objective measurement tool, they can produce illusionary effects and are susceptible to various kinds of external influences (environment, mood, health, bias etc). So in a scenario where we cannot measure anything significantly in an objective manner using calibrated equipment, the likelihood that one of the other factors plays a role increases.

How do you know he was measuring the things that effect SQ?

What listening tests of switches and digital cables have you conducted at home?