Interesting response on switches and ethernet cables

Not really as one can easily hear the difference between Naim and DCS in a blind AB test.

And there is also abundant evidence to suggest that the DAC sections of different streamers perform differently, which would support the above mentioned difference.

We’ve been here a million times before. The difference in sound is nowt to do with binary digits.

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Try to connect your DCS into the router, vs directly to your N10 Melco server ( and direct switch).
I would be surprised that you still find no differences.

As far as science is concerned, there shouldn’t be more going on. The transport system (TCP/IP) is tightly controlled, and all the bits have a strict order and CRC to ensure they are received exactly as they were sent. So in that case you would have to provide evidence that more is happening that could have a significant enough effect that the end result would (or could) be different.

As far as science goes I think one of the more important rules are always question what you think you know.

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That is another logical fallacy called the “Argument From Ignorance” fallacy:

Sorry for being pedantic…

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Not sure if this was directed at my last post. If it was it was not an argument, just a general comment that as a scientist to keep an open mind and question your own truths, findings and hypotheses until you have enough evidence to stop investigate the topic at hand.

Really such as what… I don’t doubt their ingenuity, but I would put them in the ranks of Meridian and similar… they have pushed innovative products absolutely … but general industry innovation … I don’t think so… but let me know and happy to be corrected and update my notes.

Now if you mentioned Sony or Philips then yes, they very much pioneered consumer digital audio that we take for granted now.

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Well you are trying to create wiggle room for the idea that there ‘might’ be more going on with switches and cables than we know, which is not a scientific approach and is what is called the Argument From Ignorance:

Although we have proven that the moon is not made of spare ribs, we have not proven that its core is not filled with them; therefore, the moon’s core could very well be filled with spare ribs.

As the page on the fallacy describes, “People make wild claims, and get away with them, simply on the fact that the converse cannot otherwise be proven.”

Until there is a testable hypothesis that there actually is more going on, there would be no reason to believe this is the case. At least there would be no basis for buying expensive network equipment ‘just in case’ more is going on that we currently don’t know or understand.

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Thats where you are very wrong
Do a search on YouTube, for dcs factory tour, you will be surprised

Ok do Sony or Philips advocate fancy ethernet cables to make your hifi ‘sound’ better?

To be honest, I did post my response to you here because I did make an hypothesis, “let’s try a switch between the naim streamer on loan and my router and see if that help enjoy it as much as my CD player”. What finally made me switch to streaming was hypothesis no 2, to also connect my nas (music files and upnp server) direct to the same switch instead of to the router. This was with a consumer grade switch. Later I preferred both a Cisco and finally a EE8. I also found I preferred certain ethernet cables.
Obviously, if I were to summarize my experiments and findings and submit it to a scientific magazine or conference it would probably not be considered to be of significant quality or extensive enough in the unlikely event contribution in this field were accepted. Still for me it is enough to put up a hypothesis that there might be more than a protocol involved in wired ethernet audio.

But like what… I have visited many hi tech factories in my professional life… it’s not really what my question was, I was asking what has Data Conversion Systems Ltd of Cambridge developed that we all use in our replay systems which is what you implied… simple question. How can a question be wrong?
I don’t doubt DCS Ltd creates some great products, but that is a different matter.

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Not that I am aware. Although Sony and Philips have defined protocols and physical interfaces for cables.

The dCS position must have some veracity for simple networks, but I don’t think it applies to all situations. My Muso2 has accesed the ‘network signal’ from various places in my simple network, and the sonic results were different. I am using the noted ‘Netgear GS108’ as it turns out.

When I had the ER, I thought it was a game changer.

Wow! it sounded good, full-bodied, bass was tight, instruments were clearly separated, music was fast and rhythmic!

However, listening carefully nights and days for the next 3 1/2 weeks, with the ER off and on, I finally realized it was just my own perception, my own expectation - NO DIFFERENCES whatsoever!!!

I guess that that folks who can perceive the differences, who claim the sonic benefits of the ER, may have had some issues with their home network, or their LAN to start with? The reason that I am saying this because I notice the majority of these users are non-IT people or someone who is not familiar with computing in general? Of course, there may be some exceptions.

Btw, FYI - my streamer is the latest LInn Klimax DSM/2.

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Well

First to offer 24 bit, first to go 24/96, first 24/192, helped Sony and Philips develope the SACD, first to use dxd
Also developed many special interfaces that are now international standards, like dual AS, dot, etc, not forgetting all the military stuff, before they got into digital hifi.

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You nutter!
That’s totally mad. :grinning:

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Have you read all the threads where we have discussed at great lengths that a lot of em noise as well as digital signal comes along the Ethernet cables?

And the construction and materials of the cable influence the types and amounts of em noise.

It’s the noise that makes the audible difference, if there is one, not the digital signal.

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I haven’t… but is there any evidence that this em noise is transferred into the streamer, goes through it’s network stack and then into the DAC to measurably affect the output signal? Or is it a hypothetical scenario? And how big is the difference in em noise introduced between a regular ethernet cable compared to an expensive one?