Can you use an external dac with the naim streamer?
yes.
Yes, the new Naim Streamers can either be run in transport mode to an off board DAC or in analogue output mode using the inbuilt DAC… but not both modes at the same time due to system internal configuration,
The legacy streamers could work in both modes concurrently albeit with a small performance hit.
Have you tried it? I tried the akudorik exakt and it do nothing close to what you (and Linn) describe. I think Linn needs a few years to get this right. With Exakt you need to to the basics right first and then perhaps exakt can expand a little on that. And the DSM with digital volume control was a step backward.
I like many Linn products very much. They are way ahead of Naim in reducing energy comsumption and bulk.
It is not either or. Process lots of data in parallell seems to be FPGA from my horizon. Apple’s machine-learning chip is an example. 8K video another.
When you have more logic to perform then DSP-code is easier to write and evolve. On the recording side DSP + machine-learning is becoming more common from simple stuff like cleaning up field-recording (filter out the sound of wind blowing through a tree … rattling the leaves) to very intelligent mix-functions. These are functions already commercially available (and pretty good).
Not sure I agree with that… it certainly hasn’t been the case for me any my DSP work.
The challenge is doing the calculations in such a way that the side effects don’t spoil the audio.
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My comments are for my system rather than an Exakt Akudirik, which I’ve never heard.
For me DSM with Space Optimisation V2 is better than my previous analogue pre-amps. I don’t have Exakt, but play my LP12 Urika II through a DSM and Linn KCT power amplifier in to Spendors. Sound Quality is superb IMO. It doubles up for AV duties and Sky Sports cricket commentary has never sounded better.
If you are using Exakt then you can only use Space Optimisation V1 at the moment. V2 has more options and was a big upgrade for me over V1 and does exactly what I describe in my lounge.
I like the digital volume control and digital phono stage too. I was sceptical at first, but am now totally convinced of its benefits. Worth giving Space Optimisation V2 a go if you haven’t already.
I definitely agree with energy consumption. I like to turn things off when not in use and both Linn and Chord are great in this respect. No need for always on,
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FPGA is not a DAC chip, it can be almost whatever you want it to be in computing terms. I used it for something completely different. Putting FPGAs in to a product will count for little unless you have the expertise to implement your design on the FPGA. The advantage is the designer is not constrained in the way he or she would be if they used off-the-shelf chips.
You can make a DAC-in-a-box from a kit using a standard DAC chip. If you replace the DAC with a FPGA then most hobbyists would struggle. I certainly would as DAC code is very different from the area of work in which I used FPGAs.
Whereas DAC appliances with the same chip tend have a similar sound, DAC appliances built upon FPGAs can sound completely different e.g. Chord DAVE vs PS Audio Direct Stream.
However, I agree whatever is inside the DAC appliance you can simply listen to the finished product and go for the one you like best.
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the Chord offerings are very complex products and it took RW a lifetime of work to get to where they are today.
just using an FPGA doesn’t guarantee good sound, it is a lot more complex than that !
It is easily audible on one particular Skid Row track - slave to the grind.
The lead guitars, vocals, drums, bass are all reproduced with no smearing at all and with the speed of the live instruments on a Chord DAC… amazing performance.
Naim products use a simple IIR filter - they admit in their white papers, that these have phase problems and try to compensate those phase issues in the analogue filters on the output stage with a 7 pole filter.
Chord take a different approach and get the maths right with their FIR filter (it gets better as you pay more)… but the FPGA also controls the noise shaper and the pulse array DAC… so quite a complex product… and the analogue filters in a Chord DAC are very simple and benign to the sound…
different sounds and presentation as a result.
I like the Chord one the most… but enjoy music on non-chord DACs too… like for example the AudioQuest’s Dragonfly Red.
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I also more look at the end result, and with the ND555 Naim have created a spectacular end result. Sometimes the technical discussions are comparable with what you see in digital photography space. Also there it’s not about the amount of megapixel only…
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absolutely Bert… it’s all about enjoying the music.
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In some ways ‘the long run’ may be irrelevant if they are hammering the ‘here and now’.
What works for you now?
If it’s non Naim then go for it, if Naim then better that option you can change.
Overall it’s mind boggling to think with digital that we have a ‘perect digital recording’ but that output devices cannot produce equal experiences when superficially that should be easy apart from analogue output stages.
try it with the DCS clock
without the clock, dcs rossini is on the same price level vs nds/ 555dr.
Superficially the easy part??? Couldn’t be further from the truth… that is the most complex part that is impossible (literally) to perfect, so every principal designer will have their own take on what to focus on and therefore provide different performances,
The analogue electronics stages are the easier part…
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I’m thinking about leaving Naim for the dCS Bartok. Has anyone heard it compared to the NDX2? How about compared to the ND555?
you can ask @Bluesfan, he heard it along dcs rossini/ clock, chord hugo/ mscaler, chord dave/mscaler, nd555.
There seems to be an odd assumption there that Naim are going to start from zero with something new for the next model. Why this assumption is made I don’t know.
For all we know, they have been working on and doing R&D on the next architecture they will use before the current streamers even came out and when they hit the end of their life the next iteration, may be a new product, but Naim might well have already had nearly a decade of experience with the next architecture behind the scenes.
Now of course we don’t know, but I’d put money on them already having their ducks in a row. They didn’t fail to disappoint with their first ever CD player, or their first tuner, or first streamer. We are not even talking a new product category here, just an architecture change (I use the word “just” loosely here). I think the chances they hit EOL on the current range and shrug and say “well that’s the limit of what we know, sorry guys” is near zero.
FWIW, Luxman also love using old discontinued Ti chips in their new DACs. Maximising mature technology is design philosophy, not a handicap.
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If Luxman uses the same TI chip then it should sound the same as an NDAC. But does it?
For that matter the CDS3 and Cd555 had the same DAC Chip, but they do not sound the same.
So the choice of DAC CHIP is not as important as it seems. (That is why Chord do not use DAC Chips and build their own in house custom ones)
This is from the old stereophile review of the Naim Cd 3.5
"But what about the CD 3.5 with an external power supply powering the analog filters and output? I asked Vereker why it should make a difference at all.
“Filters have fairly extreme current requirements. The minute you take the load off the internal supplies and you power that separately, you make a worthwhile improvement. People assume that the next DAC technology will make a huge improvement, but that’s not necessarily true—in some ways it’s the least important part of a CD player. Things like the environment in which the analog stage is working can be more important than the DAC you’re using.”
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Nothing wrong with that all, but one has to realise older technology is ultimately less capable … and so the best performances overall will be had with more recent developments.
I guess in the automotive world it’s like the difference between driving a 1964 Aston Martin DB4 and a 2019 DB11, both fantastic cars to look at and drive, but the latter clearly more capable.
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