Just for the statistics, I have regularly brought my gear to dealers for comparison, speakers, amps, DACs, headphones and my own diy cables when a dealer says it can’t be connected, just to prove that it can! I have never had any hassle.
I have often left having not made a new purchase for the very reason that the demo showed little or no improvement over what I had already.
I have got quite a bit of interest in my headphones as very few dealers in my area offer Stax.
Just one word of warning it is easy to damage your stuff dragging it about the country to visit dealers
@PaulDavies based on your original post, per chance you are not an existing customer, nor that you have actually visited the dealer. Back and forth over email, the dealer likely doesn’t know you. There are now many different sources of used equipment, auction sites, free ads, second hand dealers et al.
A number of times a week a dealer will regularly receive emails or telephone enquiries about certain products or brands they stock, never to see or even hear from the enquirer again. A dealer has to be selective as to what they are prepared to offer, since it is all too easy for a buyer to simply listen to a demo and then walk away.
Some will argue that is the purpose of a dealer. Up to a point, but today, unlike perhaps pre internet, any of us can gain a vast amount of info for free, overlooking the fact that when we ask individuals from a business to advise us, they have a living to make. In essence dealers are wise to cold calls, so all of us, receive a lesser standard of service than we would like, unless we are well established with, in this case, a Naim dealer(s).
Even if distance is an issue - an early visit to discuss what you have in mind may well pay dividends. It also allows you to start building the mutual relationship, which neither phone nor email can achieve.
Many here on the forum advocate source first, which if that is part of your upgrade plan is a good starting point. If you have say a streamer or other source already, then taking that to a demo, by prior agreement is a reasonable request. If you have not transacted with the dealer before, asking to take a whole system - just may be too big an ask.
To setup your system will not be a simple plug and play; an hour at a minimum, likely longer, all the time the demo room is unavailable to another customer and the dealer will also have spent time setting up the new system you wish to audition. Again, if the dealer doesn’t know you, who sets up your equipment on the dealer’s premises? The issue is easily overcome if you are an existing customer; less likely if you are not.
I don’t see your request for one item as unreasonable, save for the observation that small steps to build a relationship may be much more fruitful. Interesting comments on this thread, although ultimately it is for you to forge a working dialogue with a dealer of your choice, rather than sharing your frustration. If the dealer knows you are travelling a distance, they will recognise that you are making a commitment. There are some excellent dealers who offer Naim; a visit will allow you to make an initial judgement. All in that category will have experienced potential buyers in circumstances similar to your own. A genuine customer will usually be met by genuine service, the onus is on a potential customer to allow that understanding to develop.
I have a 20 year relationship with my dealer. He lets me borrow gear, and would let me bring my gear to the store. But, I don’t know if he would do this with a newbie who just walked into the store for the first time.
Why not? If he wants to develop a rapport with someone as a potential client, which is how successful dealers develop lucrative long term relationships, that seems like exactly the right sort of relaxed, accomodating approach to take.
My first approach to my Naim dealer was regarding a pair of speakers which I bought elsewhere and thought were defective. He was my nearest authorised dealer for the brand, and when I called him he said sure, bring them in and we’ll have a listen.
Nearly ten years later, he has taken a fair amount of cash from me, and given me great service over the years. If he had written me off as a potential time waster he would have lost plenty to business to a competitor.
My dealer brings demo equipment to me and wires it in. I wouldn’t expect this kind of service if we hadn’t spent money there and had a long relationship.
I have taken my own gear to dealer demos in the distant past but it never proved useful because a demo room cannot exactly replicate my home listening room. Small differences can result in big differences when the gear arrives home.
The best compromise was to find a dealer who would let me dither at length in the shop and take the proposed candidate home for a brief try out before committing. Some some expensive mistakes were avoided.
Well, I never actually got as far as getting in the door. From this request on the dealer’s rather unwelcoming website, I get the impression that had I turned up up unannounced, I might well not have been let in the store:
Please contact us to make an appointment before visiting the store.
In this instance, I think that would be unlikely, as what I wanted to compare was the current spec version of the model that I already have with my 30-year-old version (specifically the current Klimax LP12 vs my 30-year-old LP12/Lingo 1/Ekos).
The type of equipment I’m interested in isn’t for sale online. Besides, with the possible exception of the loudspeakers, I’ve always found that equipment performs much the same at home as it does in the dealer’s demonstration room.
I was planning on taking just one item of equipment (my turntable/arm/cartridge/phono preamp combination) which could be set up in minutes if connected to an amp with a powered line-level input, such as one of the newer Naim integrated amps, which the dealer in question has advertised on his website if not on demo.
Which is why I suggested coming in on a Friday afternoon.
First time for this dealer. As I was planning a major upgrade to my system, I had intended to do the upgrade in stages, hoping to build up trust with each successive purchase.
He’s the only game in town. The next nearest dealer that stocks the brands I’m interested in is over 500 miles away.
The dealer more or less said so in his reply (my emphasis):
I hope you can understand our position as a very busy business.
…then not only does the dealer lose the sale, the manufacturer loses the sale too.
I would suggest you arrange a demo of the new deck with the dealer. It’s much easier to build a relationship in person. If you still then wish to do a comparison demo then you’ll be a in a much better position to negotiate. It may just be that the dealer I being cautious here.
@sound-hound: You are correct to assume that I am not an existing customer.
You are also correct to assume that I have not visited the dealer. Given the choice, I would have taken the small steps to build a relationship that you suggested, beginning by just dropping in to the store discuss what I had in mind.
But that approach wasn’t really an option here. On his website, he asks customers to make an appointment before visiting the store, so I refrained from turning up unannounced and tried to set up an appointment in advance. When I called up to try to set up an appointment, he asked me to use email, so I did: the back and forth over email was at the dealer’s behest.
I realize that as a new customer, it would have been unreasonable to ask to bring in my entire system, which is why I suggested taking just one item of equipment (my turntable/arm/cartridge/phono preamp combination) which could be set up in minutes. However, if I’ve gone to the trouble of booking an appointment in advance, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the demonstration room to be unavailable to other customers for the duration of my appointment.
I disagree that the onus is on a potential customer to allow the understanding that the customer is genuine to develop. I think the onus is on the dealer to assume that a potential customer is acting in good faith unless or until proven otherwise.
@graham55 has read the situation perfectly: this dealer has made it pretty clear that he’s too busy to do any kind of comparative demo, either with a customer’s equipment or his own.
If he’s too busy to provide what I would consider the most basic level of service to be expected of a high-end audio dealer, he doesn’t deserve my business.
Never been an issue with any of my trusted dealers. When I purchased new speakers a few years back and a new tonearm and cartridge more recently I hauled my gear in and went through the comparison process. That said my last purchase (streamer) was based on an extended home audition and I found this much better. The 2 hour comparison session at a dealer is - I now find - a bit of a trial where you are switching back and forth trying to identify differences, improvements, etc… Having a component for a week at home is much better.
It sounds as if you might not live in Britain? If not, that always puts a different complexion on things, as it seems that not everywhere has the same approach that seems common in Britain.
I have seen that in Britain, with more than one dealer, and very common where demo is required. I don’t see as negative at all as it ensures you get attention, and there can be very good reason:if demos are done properly they take time and occupy the demo room(s), so if they are a popular/busy dealer the demos have to be booked or the customer can arrive and hear nothing, getting frustrated and annoyed as they wait possibly for hours on the off-chance that someone will finish early or not turn up. Also some dealers only have very limited staff, who spend a lot of time with customers leaving no-one free to see a casual drop-in. As for Friday afternoon, I would expect busier and so dealer having less time than, say, an early weekday morning.
It is worth going back to them and asking if there is any better time when they can accommodate your request, pointing out that to make the decision to spend a lot of money with them you need certainty that the sound difference is significant, and float the thought that alternatively if it suits them better you’d be happy to take home for a few days on a “sale or return” basis.
When I worked in the security industry and thats going back a long time ago, I found that a sale of perhaps a few hundred pounds could/might bring an order of sometimes thousands. Being helpful and polite often pays dividends. On the other hand using the USA term “tire kickers” can be a frustrating business. You get to know these people after a while.
Everybody is a potential customer was my motto.
I visited a dealer in a small city in New Zealand (Dunedin) one of only two and talked to the salesman about what I kit I was currently enjoying.
I explained to him that I was really only there to fill in some time while my partner was shopping elsewhere. He almost begged me to take home some Focal speakers to audition even though he knew I wasn’t keen to buy anything. He was a great guy and I visited the store several times and spent a moderate amount before the store sadly closed.
A polar opposite experience at a large department store where they were demoing a Perreaux amp and Theophony speakers that I was quite keen on. After listening for a very short time I was sure the speakers were wired out of phase or something. It sounded absolute rubbish. I mentioned this to the salesman and requested to take them for a home demo. He told me I would have to pay the full purchase price then come back for a refund if I wasn’t happy. He also implied I had no idea of what I was talking about regarding the sound quality.
Obviously I let my feet do the talking. Such a shame as both Perreaux and Theophony deserve better. Thankfully no longer sold through this store.
I have done similar without any qualms, though it wan’t expressed in the same way: Trialling both Chord Hugo and Chord TT DACs at home, supplied by a remote dealer with discussions by email and finalised by phone: they were very happy to loan demo units, but required a deposit against their return, as in the combined agreed sale price (a decent discount over list). They paid the carriage cost to me. I had to pay the return carriage cost - which was a lot more expensive than I expected because I didn’t dare do uninsured, and for any shipping over sea that is significant. I fully understood and was happy to do that, pleased to be able to audition for a couple of weeks at home and having credit cards with adequate combined limits.
As many dealers run with low numbers of qualified people and some of these set ups are complex I wouldn’t be offended if he said he couldn’t accommodate bringing my own gear in for comparisons not that I would anyway, much better IMHO to borrow the proposed new gear and compare in your own listening environment
But may not be realistic if you want to try several things, though good for final confirmation, while the challenges for the dealer in terms of both effort and risk can be greater, so understandably not all offer the facility readily - and I gather is far less commonly possible outside Britain than it is here.
