So, there have been lots of compliments about the effect on SQ from the new firmware, praising all it’s “hifi” qualities like stereo imaging and dark background, one poster describing the accurate placing of instruments within the soundstage “hologram”.
I haven’t seen one mention of musicality.
It made me think about Julian Vereker’s original inspiration for founding NAIM in the first place; to achieve the sound that he got from live events, which don’t have any “hifi” tricks at all as part of the experience.
I have to say that through all these SQ developments I’ve been impressed by the way that despite taking the NAIM sound into this territory, it has never lost that musical foot tapping quality.
I think this marriage of both worlds is a fantastic achievement that I really enjoy and appreciate, but of course I daresay not everybody shares that view, the treasuring of olive and chrome bumper boxes being the evidence.
I think that’s been my goal from the start of my hifi journey, and why I primarily settled on Naim (and Linn). At the time nobody did it better. A pair of Isobariks, some Naim amps, an LP12 and you were sitting in the front row of the concert!
As good as it was at the time I always thought it was always a bit flat and two dimensional compared to the real thing. That where Naim’s later kit has improved matters. The dimensionality, instrument accuracy, micro dynamics, naturalness and shear realism created by OC and NC has really pushed the boundaries. My only surprise is that it’s taken so long. Julian’s legacy was obviously much more powerful than even he imagined!
You would not expect updates to have the drastic effect on sound and sound quality a few users has overwelmed the forum with over the last year. I still do not really believe it not that there are no changes but that the changes are extremely blown out of proportion. Of course I am not a 500 owner, but I really think this long debate about firmware destroying everything has made too many users thinking that a firmware update will destroy or make the streamer sound totally different.
Not strictly pertinent to this thread but had me thinking as I’m spinning the original Clapton/Bluesbreakers album, I’m sure it’s not the last word in recording excellence, and EC is technically far from the greatest of guitar players, but the groove throughout is spellbinding, Have You Heard? Those familiar with the record will know where I’m coming from!
Now I’m sure there’s other hi-fi out there that can capture this magic, but to be honest I’m done with evaluating hi-fi stuff. However, once I had the pleasure of chatting with Julian at the Swiss Cottage show, but we didn’t discuss hi-fi but John Coltrane, Art Blakey etc, I’d rarely talked with anyone with so much enthusiasm, Touraj at Vertere comes close, and what I think has stuck is that vibe at least it was very much present the last time I visited the Salisbury facility. Whether it comes off a Muso, turntable, CDP, 555/552 or NC or for matter the firmware upgrade isn’t the issue, just does it feel good?!
I’m sitting at home this evening, reading your post and listening to music. With my head nodding along. Mostly because of the music, but a bit in agreement with your points too.
My understanding of Julian‘s original intent when he started to make amplifiers was to perfect timing, which he felt was poor in other amps of the day even when other aspects of performance were excellent, so he set out to fix. Other considerations such as, for example, evenness of frequency response, were secondary to timing. From that it has seemed to me, from everything I have read over the years, that in the early days as he perfected the timing aspect, some other aspects of Naim amps’ performance ended up less than perfect, resulting in the fabled “Naim sound”, that being not just due to well aligned timing. Then, once timing was fully perfected, it focus could move to improving other aspects of performance without losing mastery of timing, such that amps gradually moved closer to that theoretical ideal of a “straight wire with gain“. As a result the “Naim sound“ became diluted, and people who preferred the sound arising from the less accurate performance of earlier amps strted to complain that Naim’s amps have become more “hifi”.
That is my take on it even though I have never heard a Naim amp.
I am currently a second away from having Julian’s turntable (phonosophie 3, aro, prefix inside) but now I have bought Superline and supercap Dr… but I will give the 90s version definitely a try.
A years or so before Covid I’d flown to London for a meeting, only for it to be cancelled. With best part of a day to enjoy it occurred to me it was a golden opportunity to try to find s dealer where I coild ag last hear Naim amps. I googled to find any dealers around selling both Naim and PMC - (PMC speakers because I was familiar with the MB2, Fact 12 and 25-26, and how they compared to my own speakers at the time (PMC EB1i), which would give me a fair reference point as I obviously didn’t have my own speakers there. There was one just three miles or so north of where I was, and even on a direct bus route, so off I set.
When I walked in the shop there were two members of staff at a desk, no visible (or audible) sign of any other customers: good, I might have a chance. I nodded good morning and had a little browse: yes, some Naim gear, but as for PMCs only small (standmounts were visible (in fact I’m not sure there were any significant floorstanders of any brand.
I went to the desk. After I’d been standing there a few minutes one of the staff deigned to pause from their conversation and loojed st me. I asked if they had any of the larger PMC speakers. His response was to tell me that I did not need big speakers! This is without asking me anything about what system I have now, my taste and likes in music, etc., let alone what I was there for.
I walked out, snd found something else enjoyable to fo before my flight home. I haven’t had an opportunity to go to a dealer since, not that that experience made me want yo.
Not so sure about esteemed, but indeed yes (and I have said do on multiple occasions). My introduction to Naim was the ND5XS streamer, back in 2013, though I have been aware of Naim from virtually their start, and was impressed by what I read about the first models but couldn’t afford. (Interestingly no mention originally of “Naim sound”!) The trouble is, from a good few years before 2013 up to early this year the nearest dealer to me was either a flight or ferry journey away, restricted to latter of course if taking speakers to audition amp if dealer doesn’t have same -costly and time consuming so not something I chose to do just for interest. And by then my only interest would have been 300 or 500, though uncertain on paper - however I suspect I would like twin 350s.
Personally I find I can’t hear all the details of the music at any live gig, certainly nothing like I can hear on the recording but I do get the energy, pace and experience of being there. I don’t hear stereo separation but I can see where everyone is but then again I’m never in the optimum listening position in an arena.
I could certainly understand then if the plan was to recreate the experience more than the other elements. My nait 1 might be an example of this - it is very engaging, musical and clear and quite addictive when I use it but not as detailed as my actual system.
I find it depends hugely on the gig: acoustic or amplified is a particular significant factor, latter often blurs positioning completely, and muddle detail (but doesn’t have to - I have been to some where the sound was excellent including stereo placemnent. Acousticon the other hand I’ve found can be as clear as a bell with great three dimensional sound image , or not if acoustics are poor. With a live orchestra trumpets in particular have pinpoint placement (I could point directly at them with my eyes closed!
My personal view is that the word live performance is very misunderstood. It’s not seeing Oasis at Wembley. It’s being right next to a live band in the same room or hearing someone play directly from a drum set without mics or hearing a fender amp with a 52 tele sing 2m from you. The one that can capture THAT is in for a big win. If you’ve ever been in a band being absorbed by the live instruments and their dynamics you will know how hard it is to copy that all the way through to your HIFI speaker.
No one wants to replicate a shitty PA system I hope.
For what it’s worth, I actually enjoy the quiet backgrounds and stereo imaging of my CB kit To my ears my 42/110/HiCap does better at both than the NAIT XS3 they replaced.
I’d hope that, even if not a strength of Naim kit, you still experience more than acceptable performance in all areas. Naim is particularly good at timing, other areas being “merely” good!? If that gap has closed even more over the Naim generations then that’s excellent news
To my ears my 42/110/HiCap does better at both than the NAIT XS3 they replaced.