Leap forward speakers for NDX2 and SN2

Your source is plenty good enough to justify an amp upgrade, and a 282/250 would almost certainly give you much better performance from your existing speakers, including the bass extension and control you are looking for. That’s more boxes, and quite a bit of cash, though. If you find some speakers you like, it would be interesting to compare them on a Supernait with your SX1s on a 282/250…if you’re sufficiently curious!!

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The ATC SCM40 would be on the top of my list.
Also the KEF Reference 1 Standmounts - just to shake things up.

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Yes, deep down I know you are right about the drive units and I will happily put my prejudice to one side.

I did audition some Dynaudio floor standers years ago before settling on my then Neat Motive 2 speakers. From memory they sounded very clear with great rhythm but lacked bass extension. I will have to research their ranges.

Thanks @ChrisSU, but I have already made the decision not to go down the multiple box route because basically I can’t afford where it may take me!

My system is very good at the moment with the Neat Motive SX1s and the speakers are very controlled. My comments about control were intended to convey that if I gained deeper bass extension I would want it to be as controlled as the available bass is at present - I would not want extension for the sake of it.

Yes I may audition the ATCs but they would be at the maximum size that I could (may be allowed to) consider due to domestic harmony etc.

I am psychologically averse to stand mounts rightly or wrongly assuming that you need cabinet real estate to get bass extension. Plus I prefer the look of floor standers in comparison to stand mounts and stands.

Hi Bjm

Taking the time to acknowledge each reply is appreciated.

The advice to spend time letting your system run in is spot on, especially as you have a SN2 which will sound a little harsh initially but will mellow out beautifully after a couple of months.
As is the advice about tweaking furnishings, speaker location etc in your room. And ditto choice of speaker cables and interconnects. I would advise getting this all in place and being familiar with how it all sounds so you have a known benchmark for auditioning speakers. You are not in any hurry. I’m with you all the way re: floor standing speakers by the way although HH is absolutely right, there are some quality stand-mounted speakers out there that can sound amazing when well matched which won’t cost anything like £4k. Part of the enjoyment is finding the right speakers that match your taste and room.

I am seriously considering an NDX 2 for my SN2 and PMC 25.23s which are a great match.

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Kudos Super 20 could fit.

Thanks @1GiantLeap, I do appreciate all of the advice that people give on this forum and value all opinions therefore I try to respond to most. These Naim forums are unique in so much as I have never encountered such helpful and polite contributers on any other forums. I don’t do many forums because I get fed up with the sniping and durge of drival that you have to wade through. The Naim forum is like a breath of fresh air.

Anyhow, back to business, I want to keep things as simple as possible so I will stick to the snaic interconnect between NDX 2 and SN2. Because my electronics are in a cupboard under the stairs that is accessed from the lounge, and my speakers are in the seating area of the kitchen/family room, I am forced to live with the cables that are fed under the floor and through walls etc. When choosing the cables (I think that they are chord but can’t remember which model) I made sure that they were well shielded and would stand the test of time. This makes things easy as they will be constants within my system.

The placement of the Neat Motive SX1s is either side of a 55" wall mounted OLED screen and about 20cm from the rear wall as will any new speakers if I upgrade. There is not much more that I can do with them - bringing further into the room is not an option because I need to ensure that I don’t upset the domestic harmony. My good woman is tolerant of my electronics shenanigans but quite rightly has to be convinced for items on show.

I see that you have the PMC 25.23s which are recommended by many others as well - these must be on my short list for audition.

Interesting that you say the SN2 can sound a little harsh when new, mine was brand new last week and I loved the sound of it even straight from the box. I will qualify that though by pointing out that my NDX2 was brand new at the same time and I try to consider them as a pair rather than concerning myself with which unit is bringing the greater wow factor. However, if your experience was that the SN2 was a little harsh when new imagine how good an NDX2 would sound in your system if it can make a new SN2 sound so good! :smirk: I would strongly recommend that you audition one!

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Thanks @TOBYJUG, I have had a quick look at the Kudos super 20 on line and at least style and dimension wise it could be a contender. I will have to do some research!

I compared the SX1 and 25.23 – using an XS2 and ND5XS, so not quite your level… In my experience and in my previous room (we moved houses since), the PMC offer much more detail and a beautiful treble. With regard to the latter, Allegri’s Miserere is just stunning – that’s my demo piece to establish as to whether a speaker might be fatiguing. And to my mind, the PMC aren’t, but I understand the PMC’s upper registers attract some controversy… Also, the PMC, in my previous room (an important qualifier), produced a much tighter, punchy bass – really nice. The SX1 were a bit boomy.

The 25.23 blew my budget by a considerable margin, but I couldn’t see them leave…

@Bjm Can’t recall what cabling you were using but that can certainly make a difference. This could include a change to a Power Line mains cable, a Hi Line 5 pin DIN to DIN analogue IC, and the speaker cables as well. I’ve always used a 3m pair of NAC A5 with QED Airloc plugs and also have a short pair of A5 jumpers on the bi-wire terminals on the speakers. I’ve got PMC OB1i speakers, they came out of a 5.1 system and I’ve had no motivation to swap them out.
I’ve heard the current PMC’s and Neat motives on similar systems and thought they did a good job. However, I tend to agree with others comments on changing other aspects of the system first to tune what you have rather than spend a lot on new speakers and perhaps even end up liking the system less than where you are today.
It seems you aren’t keen to move to a multiple box system so in that sense perhaps experiment elsewhere with a change of IC or looking at your racking and isolation perhaps which can also have a profound influence on the signature of your system. Importantly have fun experimenting and enjoying the music on the way :slight_smile:

@Bjm
I wasn’t aware that you had only just purchased the Supernait. In that case I’d leave things as they are and just play music. :smiley:

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Don’t discount the Kudos C20 either.

Slightly cheaper and cut from the same cloth. Maybe a better match for your system?

I’ve owned both, The S20 is clearly better but that’s with a 282/HicapDR/250DR in tow. A Nap 200 worked very well with the C20’s when I owned that combo.

Do they have to be floor standers? If not the Dynaudio Special 40s are worth a listen. Difficult to beat at sub £4,000.

Hi @Naim_The_Dragon, very interesting reading. So you found the SX1 to be more boomy than the PMC - how far away were they from your rear wall?

Hi @Mr.M, I have the NDX2 and SN2 connected via a naim snaic and both have powerline lite mains leads. My speaker cables are very good quality chord cables buried under floors and in walls so I cannot change them. The good thing is that all cables will remain as a constant and therefore a consistent aspect of my system.

I don’t want to give the impression that I am dissatisfied with my system at all - nothing could be further from the truth. It will probably even improve over the next few months as the electronics settle down! The purpose of this thread is for me to gain a few ideas for what I hope will be my final (ever?!) update. Also, many others may benefit from the responses. I am in no rush just planning well ahead!

The only thing standing in the way of me really enjoying music is that whether via Naim app or my Roon trial or USB SSD or Tidal or Qobuz, I find that I keep exploring new music and flicking around! A bit like Netflix, where you spend as much time looking for something to watch/listen to than actually listening :grin:

Seriously though, what a great and highly musical system that I have.

Hi @JohnF, I am quite certain that I want floor standers because they are a more integral item of furniture (IMHO) as opposed to being perched upon stands, as well as any sonic differences. Plus my speaker cables are buried in the wall and do not protrude very far - they would never reach up to the speakers without having to extend by using some form of attachments.

All said however, I would not blindly refuse to consider standmounts if an audition revealed that they would be the best bet.

I tried the original Motive 1 and it was an utter disaster in my room with more bass than a reggae sound system. That said I’ve never found a ported speaker that works here. Maybe the Motive SX has tamed the bass but I very much doubt it would be hard to find a speaker with tighter bass. What I’m after is bass that can start and stop in an instant, goes deep with no boom and no overhang whatsoever, and where the bass is simply an integral part of the performance. Not everyone wants that of course, and would rather be able to impress their friends with loads of bass. Sadly, a lot of modern speakers seem to fall into this camp, hence the extra drivers that are really not necessary.

Hi @trickydickie, thanks for the recommendation, I could certainly consider the C20 but would imagine that in an audition with the S20 the S20 would ‘win’ and therefore accepting less would be too much of a compromise!