Like so many things in this hobby there’s a tendency to obsess and take simple concepts to the extreme. No thanks, you can optimize your listening room without turning it into a caricature of a studio.
I think you should also add a mixture of the two approaches which quite a number of people have done.
With regards to listening in a proper environment, with large window reflective surfaces and not to mention flexing and non rigidity, I find this can disturb and then what do we do? Draw the curtains during the day to listen to music or watch a film? Also many of Europe’s concert halls are treated acoustically, which can also be a challenge when for example the guy behind suffers a coughing fit to help clear his throat.
Personally I like to listen alone because others are not always in the mood or talk in the middle of or in the worst case set the vacuum cleaner going in the middle of an adagio sostenuto .
Yes I would like to have views of the mountains when listening, but that will not be possible in the new room. Upstairs in the living room is another matter though.
I find a nice room that is comfortably fitted out/tastefully done, be it the living room or a dedicated room with no disturbances is important to fully connect (at least for me).
Our apartment has a large open living area and where we listen is just one part of that. It is a space to gather with one another or with friends to drink cocktails and listen to music on the Naim system. It’s also a space for reading. The TV is located in another part of the living area with its own AV receiver and speakers.
The space with the Naim system does have some room treatment. There are absorption panels on the ceiling which help with first reflections from above. Aesthetically they also mark off this area from the others. Then there are some diffusion panels on the wall behind the speakers. These were left over from treatment in a previous, smaller apartment. We tried with and without them and found they made a small but noticeable uplift in giving the sound a sense of space so, since we had them already and like the way they look, we decided to keep them.
The sound is optimized with HAF convolution filters implemented through Roon and we couldn’t be happier with the final result. It sounds fantastic and is a great place for listening alone, together, or with friends.
DSP can’t remove all room effects - actually it can’t remove any, but it can mitigate some. It can’t prevent early reflections, can’t do anything about cancellations (other than destroy speakers if you try!), and it is quite limited in being able to even out dips in response unless very minor. But I’m sure that in many instances it is far better than no treatment, while it could be the icing on the cake when used in conjunction with room treatment.
Interesting…because once the ideal space optimisation is adjusted by ear, it sounds to me like there are no bass artefacts (which is where the main problems seemed to be). I was shocked how much cleaner, balanced, detailed and dynamic the music is.
Most commonly I listen alone. Not in a fully treated room – but that is only because the room isn’t yet ready for doing anything with treatment. And of course there is a big question as to what fully treated means…
My listening alone isn’t out of choice, but simply because my wife doesn’t like most of the music that I like, and prefers to either watch TV or sitting in silence reading a book rather than listening to music. As mentioned in a previous post we do have a separate lounge, and we would never want a home without that luxury, precisely because we don’t all have the same interests, and some activities are not compatible with others (one huge negative against the current in-vogue trend for “open plan living”. My sons spend mist of their time in their own rooms 99%, and anyway will soon move out.
However the music room is used by other family members, though normally when I’m not listening to music. On the occasions when others do want to use it, whether to watch a film or because they have friends round, then I defer my music listening to another occasion - it is not an issue because it is occasional.
Room effects are usually multiple, and if by bass artefacts you mean unwanted peaks in response, then indeed DSP can be very good at fixing that, and indeed that can certainly make the sound much better. But it is not so good at fixing dips in response and absolutely not complete now (for every 3dB that the sound has to be boosted, the power output from the amp doubles, which, unless you have a system with huge amount of headroom in both and speakers, rapidly eat into your available headroom.) Boosting out a cancellation is a physical impossibility (the clue is in the name!), and attempting to do so is foolhardy in the extreme, as before you know where you are the amp is wound up into clipping, and the speakers soon get damaged.
Other than general peaks or dips in response, another issue at the bass end in particular is excessive reverberation this is where bass traps come into their own, reducing reflections and so reducing reverberation, not just lowering them in level as DSP can. The knock-on effect is also reduction of peaks and troughs in response, and potentially even bringing back missing frequencies where they are due to cancellations in the room.
Another common significant room effect is early reflections – typically from floor, ceiling, Side walls, and via wall, depending on the relative distance between the direct sound path to your ears and the sound path bouncing off those surfaces. Depending on the sound level of the reflections, and the difference in timing reaching your ears, they can have quite a modelling effect on the sound.
Interesting.
I know that in the previous version of SO there were 6 room modes accounted for in my particular room.
The later version includes delay v flat frquency response…don’t know what this means and don’t need to.
I do know what I hear and I certainly would not want 6 sets of, for example, panels, estimated to have an effect on each mode.
The very first sentence in the OP says “I am curious on people who have the hifi in dedicated rooms as opposed to a living room or lounge.” I assume this was the sense in which I assumed @gthack was using the term “dedicated room” and whose terminology I adopted in response to their post.
Roger
Hey @ryder - I know it hasn’t put 90 odd people off, but a few of us are tying ourselves in knots over the scope of your poll! Can you help us out please?
Did you intend to limit the scope of the poll to only those people with a dedicated listening room, and you wish to determine the number of people who have a dedicated room professionally treated from the number who have a dedicated room with normal furnishings? It’s about 9:1 right now, so for every 10 people with a dedicated room, 9 have normal furniture, 1 has professional treatment.
I’m aware I’m taking this perhaps a bit too seriously at this point, but I’m typing with a smile on my face, aware that of any of the obscure corners of the internet this is perhaps one of only a few where this sort of discussion is “normal”
Please don’t think I was suggesting that you were ‘wrong’. It isn’t as clear as it might be.
Are they the odd people, or are the remainder odd?
And maybe some of those 9 have non-professional treatment, or are only partially treated, with normal furniture.
We’re all odd here
That’s not helping X)
Sorry, I reread your post. Yes, my intention was only to have people who have dedicated rooms included in the poll. People who have their systems in the living room should not be included.
However, I noticed there are people who have the living room treated with professional treatment. The actual focus of this thread is the use of professional treatment in the room. I don’t know, perhaps in these cases living rooms which are treated with professional acoustic products may be included, semi or fully treated.
Also some people have multiple systems and haven’t dealt with them in the same way. My living room is professionally treated, and the big system is in there. But I have several others and two are proper separates systems that many would consider their main system. I’ve done absolutely nothing with those rooms for the hifi at all in terms of professional treatment or even furnishing. If there is a rug between the speakers in the oiffice it’s because the floor is cold.
One thing I can say though, having the same model speakers in two rooms, one treated, the other not, the difference in performance is massive. A year ago, if I’d had a $4k system and someone gave me $25k to spend on audio, I’d have thrown it at the electronics. Now that I’ve compaired treated and untreated rooms (literally side by side), I’d spend nothing on the electronics and throw the entire amount at the room. It would be a bigger upgrade for the money.
Obviously the disclaimer there is “if you can”. I can’t tastefully treat the other rooms so it’s moot.
Why the emphasis on professional treatment products, as opposed to DIY absorbers or diffusers?
I think there is at least one answer option missing. I can imagine that quite a few people have mixed it up, or?
Looks like I’ve missed that out. DIY absorbers and diffusers should be included. I didn’t want something like thick curtains, thick carpets, pots of leafy plants or huge fabric sofa to be regarded as treatment products, hence the term “professional treatment products”. Yes, DIY absorbers and diffusers are fine.