No worries… there are things in life that other folks love or enjoy that I do not.
Nothing wrong, just a different point of view.
1 Like
Over the Christmas period I upgraded our Synology NAS to DSM7. As part of this a new version of Asset was installed, with a completely fresh config (so no transcoding etc.).
After install I did some quick checks of local vs Tidal, albeit for a limited number of albums. Just to see, because we’d been running FLAC -WAV on Asset for some time.
For most albums there appear to be no immediate differences. Which makes sense, since after a few seconds both FLAC are being served from the NDX2’s internal buffer.
Where we can hear differences (16/44.1) are on any albums which are tagged “remaster” on Tidal. It has to be said these are hit or miss. Some remasters DO sound better - more clarity, better treble. However, some remasters don’t sound better and the original mix is preferable.
Having said all that, Tidal don’t give any details on what pre-processing or DSP is applied to tracks before the FLAC file is sent down to the streamer. But fundamentally, if Tidal was serving the same audio content as the NAS I believe they would sound identical on our system.
Okay my final take on this from my perspective. One track, Stormy Monday by Cream from the RAH 2005 set. In order of sonic preference:
- CD FLAC rip on the Core.
- CD FLAC rip on NAS.
- FLAC stream on Qobuz.
- FLAC stream on Tidal.
A point about Qobuz the playback is demonstrably louder whether this is a factor I don’t know. However, from the Core into the NDX2 the music is sublime and, the first time I’ve ever said this, as enthralling and enriching as my vinyl.
Finally, on Radio 3 I’ve always found their broadcasts superb.
2 Likes
Might be worth giving spotify lossless a try. I find it sounds more analogue than Qobuz, in my system.
2 Likes
Yes but tbh I just enjoy the stuff on my Core but will try.
There is one other experiment, possibly two, that you could try in order to eliminate any issue caused by the internet outside home and the internal ethernet network of home. Try downloading a track from Qobuz and put it on your Core, then play it from the Core. Does it sound like streamed FLAC from Qobuz or does it sound like the CD Flac on Core?
If it sounds like the streamed FLAC from Qobuz, you have eliminated home or external network issues as the problem which others have suggested might be the cause. If it sounds more like the CD FLAC, may be there is something in the case people have put forward as being caused by the ethernet, internet networks.
I am guessing the track will not sound identical to the CD rip because of possible mastering differences or different loudness levelling embedded in the two files (CD rip and Qobuz FLAC).
If you get an interesting result with the Qobuz to local file experiment, could you repeat it with Tidal?
He’s not exactly an impartial source is he?
It’s a sales pitch for the PS Audio Air Lens. No degraded sound, no sales.
I’m happy enough with Qobuz. I’ll turn to local flac (Innuos Pulse Mini) if I feel like my local copy is better, but that is pretty rare.
Likewise there might be differences between a download purchased from the Qobuz store and a stream from a Qobuz server. I believe different versions of the same master are produced for different distribution methods, and I suspect that doesn’t only apply to CD vs streaming.
Over the years you sooner or later come across a Paul McGowan video on “something” audio related. Respect for the products he produces but for the videos? No respect at all. They are the sound of a middle aged bloke tilting very badly and so obviously inconsistently at windmills.
Are we not embarrassed as a group to be discussing a 5 minute video in which a bloke simultaneously admits that he has no idea at all what Qobuz and Tidal do with their data when storing and streaming but is “absolutely certain” they in part compress to save money on storage and compress to save money on streaming. He then asks for the comments of others because he “knows nothing” but asks that people confine their comments to the factual. Seriously? That’s worth discussing as though it ought to be taken seriously? I’m thinking not.
Let’s be clear, both services offer very compressed MP3 streams and downloads. Both also offer very high res FLAC. In order to do the latter they charge more for it. One would imagine that as they’re both still here - despite the likes of Spotify, Apple and Amazon being in the space - because their margins allow them to be. The uniqueness of their offer is the often high res nature of it. I doubt we’re going to hear of either trying to save money by no longer offering that. In other words, there is no world in which they’re compressing data to save money on storage. They’re using FLAC because it enables lossless compression. They’re using FLAC because of how it works with meta data and using FLAC because it’s an efficient way to stream. Demand for wav streams long ago fell off a cliff. Lots of reasons for that but if you’re a consumer are you really going to want to stream the file which could be up to 70% bigger, isn’t definitely better and is rubbish with meta data…
That’s the politest way I can currently think of saying one should engage one’s own brain, do some basic research and thinking for oneself and not listen to people who plainly have no idea of what they speak and can’t even speak about it logically or consistently.
The actual answer he should have given was that:
1 - the biggest single determinant is that the master of a stream is likely not the same master use for your locally ripped CD. It may not even be the same master you were listening to last week.
2 - there are now so many system variables with streaming that it cannot possibly be the case that one can assert “local sounds better because…”. Anyone who tells you otherwise is indulging their own fantasy that they have discovered a magic solution no-one else knows about. That seems likely, doesn’t it.
3 - local and streaming can sound different. Some will say one sounds “better” but that’s meaningless. They just mean “more agreeable to them.” Have some fun seeing if there is some variable you can tweak to get to the point you enjoy both but if not then just accept that it is what it is in the context of your system, your network, your home and your ears.
Over the years I’ve listened at home to local v streaming on various devices. FWIW, and I’m not sure it’s worth much…
On a loaned Devialet, the noise levels were extraordinarily low. It made both sources sound a little unreal. I could not tell which was which.
On my Naim system the noise levels were much higher but streaming sounded great. Again, I could not tell which was which.
On an Enleum AMP -23R I found that the quality of streaming, using the same DAC and streamer as with the Naim, went up hugely. Suddenly I could tell the difference. If anything, streaming was better.
With the Feliks Arioso 300B I am back to being unable to tell the difference. Streaming is noticeably louder than local but not troublingly so.
5 Likes
Qobuz streaming via Roon sounds about as good as my stored files, i.e. both sound fantastic. I prefer buying digital files and storing them on my NAS but that’s more to have a local copy I can keep forever and to support the artist.
1 Like
I know it’s out of topic. Just curious if now your Felix is working well, without humming.
Just a few words response.
.
Transformer hum close to nil. Speaker hum as you were but fine.
Internal fuse tripped 4 days after its return. No sign a tube has blown although I’ll be taking the rectifier out to check given that it was very bright for those 4 days. Had Electricity NW out and all here and at local substation working as it ought. Voltage recorder on its way to check for transient spikes. Awaiting quote from electrician to check the three sockets used for hifi to rule out any intermittent faults. Russ Andrews Mega Clamp UK on its way to ensure there are no spikes.
Will power up with NOS Brimar rectifier just in case the new PSVane 5U4G was the issue. If it trips again then…
My God , you are unlucky. Hope all will finally resolve for you.
1 Like
Unlucky, valves can of course go bad with travel or for other random reasons, an electrical issue. Either way, belt and braces methodical, calm approach required.
1 Like
Nice piece of kit & well said.
1 Like
Judged on looks and the UI alone I’d have kept it. Sadly they appear to have quality control issues, it didn’t operate consistently and the sound was unengaging. The most accurate reviews appear to have been the only two who raised question marks and concerns. On paper it ought to have paired beautifully with numerous systems. In practice itsutility was very limited indeed.
1 Like
A shame.
At the price they are asking the amp should be perfect.
Nothing’s perfect 
.
1 Like
I don’t suppose that’s surprising. That involves 2 Naim components. The NDX2 will be sonically optimised for the way the core is streaming the data. Or vice versa.
The NDX2 doesn’t handle the how the NAS streams the data quite so well. Qobuz even less so. Tidal worse than Qobuz.
1 Like
Seems to me that the main issue is the original recording. Difficult to generalise. Qobuz/Local & Roon is my main source, for ease of use, and I find it impossible to make blanket statements of preference. Naim SN3/ND5 XS2 and Ovator 400s. I probably tend towards a 24bit recording, but some recordings sound wonderful and,tbf, some great albums were badly recorded, and remain so. As for Spotify, left it behind many years ago.