Mac or PC?

I agree with pretty much all your points and experiences. All the PC guys seem to have very similar issues and preferences. And I am definitely an Android guy for the same reasons as yourself.

There are definitely strong reasons to go either the Mac or PC route. For most of my peers here, who have limited detailed computer/software knowledge, they would have been better off with a Mac but they went with a PC due to up-front cost. In the end they have paid more for the PC after paying the Nerd Herd where they bought it, to fix it.

So really, my opinions here as I mentioned, are applicable to my experiences with friends and family, who seem to fall into the two categories I mentioned.

And btw, Iā€™m very happy to hear that Win11 appears to be a good OS as I will have to upgrade my 3 units to it. It may be cheaper to buy 3 newer computers that will run Win11, than to buy the 3 new processors.

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Iā€™ve never owned a Mac although Iā€™ve used iphones and ipads for years for work and leisure. Although I have an Android personal phone now I still think for iphones and tablets Apple have a slightly nicer user interface - although at a cost. The lack of headphone jack or external Micro SD card drive on iphones means though that they simply canā€™t compete with my Ā£120 Oppo running Fiio FLAC music player with its 500GB Micro SD card when I want lossless music on the move. Muisc transfer is as simple as drag and drop too with no need to use stupid bloatware like Itunes just to bung and extra couple of albums on the phone for replay later. Iā€™m very familiar with Mac laptops because my daughter has one and uses that for Logic Pro and for music and general computing. A close friend is a Mac disciple with Apple everything too so Iā€™ve used his gear on and off over the years including for photo editing.

To be honest for desktop class processing though Windows is the way to go provided you buy a high end machine. There are numerous things that just run better on Windows (games, Photo and video editing with high end graphics) or indeed are impossible to do on a Mac (VR) and thatā€™s before you even get into the much easier upgradability of windows machines and their lower cost to buy. Since Windows 10 I also think Windows O/S became superior and more intuitive than Mac and for gaming or VR Windows is the only game in town really.

If youā€™re even remotely into gaming then VR is the most astonishing technology to have emerged in 30 years and programs like Microsoft Flight Simulator are quite simply jaw dropping nowadays in VR and thatā€™s not even possible on a Mac - most of them simply donā€™t have the horsepower to run it even if you do try some kind of dual boot workaround.

Hereā€™s the home flight simulator I built a few years back.

The PC running it (like almost all my computers since 1999) is an Alienware which are superbly built and wonderfully powerful machines. That particular one is an Aurora R6 model which I bought in 2016/17 but it has been upgraded with an AMD RX6800XT graphics card, a chunk of new fast RAM and it runs FS2020 and numerous other simulation type games beautifully even in VR. Iā€™ve settled on Alienware now for everything apart from my travel laptop because they are super reliable and on the very rare occasion I have had to call them about something their tech support has been incredible. As an example I damaged the screen on my Alienware M15R2 laptop outside warranty. Within a week they sent 2 engineers to my house who changed the screen in minutes for Ā£300. By contrast my daughter dropped her Macbook Pro and the screen cost Ā£900 in parts alone. It was so expensive I had to put it through the house insurance in the end and sent it away to their repairersā€¦

I have an Asus laptop for travel with work ( because Alienware donā€™t really do lightweight!) but in comparison to the Alienware machines itā€™s been unreliable, not very well built and their tech support were useless and took 2 attempts to replace a non functioning keyboardā€¦

You pay a premium for Alienware machines, although not as much as Apple - and they are much more powerful and flexible. I canā€™t recommend them highly enough and even my Apple disciple friend is in love with my Alienware laptopā€¦

Jonathan

If you want to see just how real flight simulation has got on PC check out this video showing FS2020 running on the VATSIM virtual air traffic network - Partnership Series: VATSIM - YouTube

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Yes, despite what they tell you, Macs really donā€™t cut it as gaming machines.

But alsoā€¦. the ability to upgrade in parts. Last year I replaced the two hard drives with solid state, this year I think it will be new mobo, proc & RAM - the current setup is not capable of running Windoze 11.

Andā€¦ the ability to repair a failed part; for example daughter #1ā€™s PC blew its PSU last year. My wifeā€™s old PC (built by me) had a 750w Thermaltake PSU, unused since we bought her a new one from Novatech**. It took way, way longer to get daughterā€™s PC back home from Plymouth than it did for me to swap the PSUs around. :grinning::grinning::grinning:

**why bought and not built by me, you may ask. Pressure induced by the pandemic, two terminally ill kitties, and a seriously ill wifeā€¦and in the middle of all that her bloody PC turned up its clogs!
(PS. Wife and her PC are currently in good health :grinning:)

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Like many previous posters, I spent a large part of my early (research) career building and upgrading and programming and interfacing PCs to do laboratory things. I had all the memory management faff (who remembers Qemm?) and spent several years in the much under-appreciated OS/2 world (flat memory, preemptive multitasking, IRQ based semaphoresā€¦ yea please). I first used Windows with NT, which was fine. All my office machines were later gen Win boxes, our corporate suite was Word/Excel//Outlook. Fine.

When I paid out of my own pocket for the first time, I bought late 2012 Mac minis; partly because of form factor, partly because the full software suite came with it, partly because the underlying Unix was easily accessible via a command line more akin to OS/2 than WinXP, possibly mainly because I was trying to have a concrete distinction between work computing and home, I didnā€™t know that the days of hardware upgrades were sunsetting, I just bought the one they offered and kept them until this yearā€¦ upgraded to 16GB, added the second drive kit, swapped to ssd and larger HDD using a three hundred and seventeen step process carefully followed from the web.

My wife has had a couple of MacBook Air generations over the past few years, including a new M1 last year. They do everything she wants, really well. I had all the angst of wondering how much purchase-time up-speccing to do, but we upgraded with good trade in once and without any trade in once - not because of under performance but because, well, ā€œlifestyleā€ and ā€œcoolnessā€ I suppose.

I waited it out for the M2 Mini to come out, although the 2012s have been past their sell-by date for a couple of years, even for light household computing and heavier media / tv use. I chose the base version of the Pro model because it was a small premium over a larger-RAM and -SSD basic model, had more ports and cores and so on for less incremental cost than the next step RAM upgrade. Itā€™s amazing. I havenā€™t had a performance boost like this since I did my first original gen iPad upgrade, which was skipping I think five or six generations.

We are nicely Apple ecosystem integrated at home. Tablet, phones, watches, family subscription, etc. It mostly just works, itā€™s mostly just seamless, sometimes you can get it to work if it doesnā€™t do it automagically right out of the box but sometimes you simply cannot. I expect thatā€™s true for Win/Android too. MS Office works really well, better than the not-quite-compatible Pages, Numbers, and (especially) Keynote (especially for collaboration and even presentation in an Office-dominated world). The family subscription is a sweet deal in that case: multiple users on multiple OSes and devices each for less than double the cost of an individual subscription.

I do lightweight, infrequent, low intensity games only; our son has a PC and could not survive the switch as others have noted.

Iā€™m retired and hoping to actually learn Logic Pro instead of just looking at it. We are considering actually editing out photos rather than just snapping awayā€¦ so that will be fun I think. I have bought more keyboards and mice in the last few years than I should ever admit to. We have a couple of NUCs and a recent gen Win ultraportable that I bought just prior to retirement (there are some things - tax software and full featured Overdrive for library in particular - that simply donā€™t work on Mac). I have one set up as a Linux box to play on (and try out an FPGA/SoC development board that so far mainly tells me Iā€™m not as clever as I was a million years ago when I taught the senior undergraduate course in wirewrapping and hardware interfacing haha).

I do like the improved Win11 experience, but Iā€™m really really liking the first few weeks on whatever the new OSX is (Ventura?) on my shiny and speedy new M2 Pro mini. Iā€™ll likely also get a base-spec M2 mini to replace the other 2012 box in Munich (where my wife works; I bounced back and forth and cannot see myself stuffing the mini in my hand luggage again!).

Rambling, but sharing in the hope that our use case and history is as interesting to some of you as all your tales and experiences have been to me!

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I was with windows for many years, got fed up with endless updatesā€¦ā€¦now mac and happy.

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I would save your money and go to or stick with Windows 10 with your existing processors. Iā€™ve migrated to Windows 11 and itā€™s fine but not really a step change from Windows 10 which will be supported for a while yet.

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Thanks for your insight on this. Iā€™d just as soon stay with what I have. As you say, maybe Iā€™ll just wait till Win10 isnā€™t supported anymore and until that becomes a problem.

The 2012 Mini remains a fine machine - many Minis released from 2014 were pitiful by comparison.

My M1 Mini has just started throwing kernel panics. Suspect itā€™s Parallels related with only 8GB RAM.

Agree! Probably only the old school integrated graphics is an issue as far as general performance goesā€¦ but thereā€™s life in there yet Iā€™m pretty sure. So are all the sellers in used equipment boards ds Iā€™ve looked at haha.

Iā€™m planning a Linux Mint installation, which others say works great. Will see how that plays, but itā€™s only play and no longer work nowadays (thank goodness???).

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If your son wants a gaming machine, then only PC will cut it (ask my fourteen year old).

Otherwise, donā€™t buy the hype on M1/M2 RAM. If you are doing any heavy lifting (photo, videos, virtualization, etc), you still need RAM, plenty of it, a minimum of 32GB imo, better is 64GB (what I have in my MacBook Pro M1 16"), best would be 128GB. For casual business use one can get easily get away with 8gb, though 16gb would be safer.

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I really donā€™t like Windows! Very recently, I purchased a new PC so I opted for ā€¦ A PC with Windows 11. Having spent almost thirty years learning my way around the Windows operating system, I just canā€™t be bothered to learn my way around the Mac OS. I also need to keep my eye in with Windows as I used it as a computer audio source to feed my Naim Audio DAC in my main system. Actually, I hate computers!

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Yes, for the things heā€™ll want to play I think thatā€™s the problem.

Iā€™ll get away with some ancient games I enjoyed playing usingWindows Steam via Parallels but titles my son and his pals will want to play would be cripples assuming theyā€™d even run.

The lack of user upgradable RAM is a real annoyance with Apple Silicon but as itā€™s all integrated I understand why you canā€™t do it. A shame in a way they couldnā€™t allow fast system RAM and secondary upgradable RAM but Apple wonā€™t do that Iā€™m sure.

Iā€™d like to think 16GB will be ok, but Iā€™m really uncertain based on the 8GB M1 Mini experience.

Difficult to justify the extra cost for 32GB/64GB let alone more but Iā€™m pretty convinced that inadequate RAM is the issue with recent Macs.

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