Can’t believe anyone thinks form followed function with Mana. They certainly had a particular signature. They looked awful and sounded as bad as they looked.
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Not to mention dusting the things …
@70sPete
Isn’t unhappy with the sound he just doesn’t think it aesthetically matches the retro look of the N50.
I concur and have done similar with my setup.
Much easier to dress cables and build from the bottom up in my case.
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I thought you said it sounded great?
So, er, why did you buy it? And would you eventually feel that way about whatever you use as a replacement?
I’m very happy indeed with it. It far exceeds my expectations and it’s far better in almost every way than my previous set up, and certainly in all ways that matter most to me.
Entirely satisfied? Yes in the sense that I don’t feel any desire at all to upgrade components anymore or to purchase any sort of tweaking accessories. But I really don’t like the look of the Quadraspire rack. So I guess in that sense no I’m not satisfied. I feel a desire to do something about it. I certainly wouldn’t consider changing it on performance grounds but it seems to me to be sensible if I do end up changing it to pick something that I think I might prefer the sound of. Rather than just picking something based purely on how it looks. That way I get something that I prefer the look of and the sound of. Makes sense to me anyway. I wouldn’t get Fraim because although from experience I know it will sound a lot better I dislike the appearance of it even more than the Quadraspire and also I wouldn’t want something that I needed to regularly dismantle and rebuild to maintain performance. I’ve got better things to do with my time.
If by that you mean that you don’t believe that racks can alter the sound of a aystem well if that’s your experience then so be it. My experience is that racks can and do make a very significant difference to the sound. When I had my big Naim system getting Fraim was one of the biggest fundamental improvements I’ve ever heard. Very significant and although very expensive worth the money.
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Reading between the lines I almost get the feeling that you don’t like them! I’m curious though. In what way did you think they sounded awful if you wouldn’t mind sharing?
I did like it when I bought it. I’ve changed my mind.
I might.
It does. But as in my reply to @Winniethefoo above if I’m changing the rack on the grounds of appearance then why not get something that I think will sound more to my taste as well as look more to my taste? The Quadraspire SVT is a really excellent rack and I wouldn’t change it if I liked the way it looks. It sounds fantastic, is dead easy to build and maintenance free. Sound wise I’m completely happy. I just hate the way it looks. Does that mean I couldn’t get something that I thought sounded better? Of course not.
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I’ve had a few more details back about the new Mana and I’m very tempted indeed to get this. There’s a six week lead time which is fine as it gives the new system plenty of time to burn in properly before being disturbed again. I can sell the Quadrsapire which will help offset the cost which is very reasonable anyway for a built to order rack of such quality IMO. It would look fantastic - I’m very excited about this.
Might even get one made for the TV / Blu ray player. I love the industrial aesthetic - no attempt to be pretty, just functional.
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I have a 40 year old Sound Organization stand that I’m still using. I’d like to get a Naim one but here in Canada you don’t see too many used ones and when you do they are quite pricey. I think I’d be better off putting that $$ towards a speaker upgrade.
The site you mentioned makes the racks but (at the current time) NOT the Soundstages.Want to purchase more Soundstages.The guy who runs the company has been very helpful supplying me with a replacement spike for one I was missing on a shelf for my Mana 5 tier.
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As a long time (and satisfied) Mana owner, I have a few thoughts on this.
The first time I heard Mana was at my dealer’s in London, at the very height of its popularity (late 80s or early 90s). I was open to finding something better than my basic Sound Organisation table. The setup I listened to was the standard two-level table under an LP12. I wasn’t very impressed by what I heard. The sound was detailed and insightful, but not very fluid, natural or engaging. I wasn’t at all tempted by it, and I didn’t think much about it after that.
A decade or more later I was in need of a wall shelf to deal with footfall issues, and I reconsidered the Mana. By this time it was easy to find online reviews and I found universal acclaim, by the likes of Paul Messenger, Art Dudley, Alan Sircom, Martin Colloms and Jimmy Hughes, among others. I also became aware that the Mana was especially sensitive to installation. I took a chance and ordered a single level wall shelf, and proceeded from there.
As I feared, this was not an overall improvement on the table, but it did seem to do better with certain genres of music. I took another chance and ordered a second level. That’s more like it – different presentation from the table, but comparable overall in general SQ. This convinced me that adding levels was the way to go. I decided that four levels was the most I could live with, and so ordered two more. This was better than the table in every respect, and I’ve lived happily with it for over 15 years now.
What strikes me about this thread is the generally expressed view that Mana is, at best, controversial, yet, at the height of its popularity, every review I could find was strongly in favour of it, and this was at the peak of the “Linn tight” era, which is absolutely wrong for Mana. The only negatives I came across were on aesthetic grounds. It reminds me (again) that, in audio, while you should pay attention to what experts say, you should learn to rely on your own judgement. If every expert you can find says that component X is the unquestioned leader among its peers, that is no guarantee that you will even like it. Conversely, if you listen to a component that really floats your boat, it doesn’t matter in the slightest if every expert (and every forum member) thinks it’s rubbish. Your money, your ears, etc.
To the OP’s concern. It’s intriguing that someone has decided to resurrect the Mana concept, and I think it’s well worth investigating. £250 per level is a reasonable price. However, no matter how much care the builder exercises in recreating the Mana, there’s no certainty that it will sound as good, or even similar. Consider, for instance, the lengths that Naim go to in sourcing and selecting glass for the Fraim.
It may also sound better, of course – I’m reminded of the Tiger Paw recreation of the Audiotech shelf, which addressed known weaknesses, and was said to sound at least as good as the original. The only option, I believe, is to take a chance and try it out. Worst case, if you don’t get on with it, you should be able to move it on and recoup most of your money.
I’ll be interested to hear more, of course!
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Having owned some Mana racks (I still have a stage 4 in the workshop) and having a mate that has heaps of them with an active 135 DBL system, I believe I would still rate them very highly. In fact I would place them close in performance to a Fraim.
I’d had DBL’s for quite a while but a stray conversation ended up putting me in touch with John Watson (the founder of Mana). He was able to build me a pair of stands for my DBL’s. They weren’t hugely expensive but the uplift in performance was very large.
Looking at the Sound Supports website they look very authentic and I would imagine they’d work in exactly the same way. One of the great aspects is that you can continue to add layers when you want a little jump in performance.
My only caveat would be to check that they use the same base boards and glass that John Watson used. These are almost as important as the stands themselves. If I remember correctly the base boards were laminated (Formica’d) chipboard. I can’t remember what the glass was but I don’t think it was quite the same type as Naim use? He also used two little strips of car sound proof matting in the centre of the glass to damp a particular frequency.
Other than that they are very good stands despite their utilitarian looks!
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Thanks for your detailed reply and your thoughts @Corry . Like you I’ve only ever read very positive reviews of the Mana stuff by all the well known and respected reviewers of the time. Although I was around then, and had an LP12 and Naim kit, I never got to hear or even see a Mana rack in the flesh as it were. No dealers local to me stocked it. In fact I think it wasn’t the easiest thing to get hold of. I don’t recall seeing it even at shows, and I went to one or two of those.
The guy making the new racks has told me that he has owned the originals and that his versions easily hold their own against these. The welding on the new ones is of a slightly different type apparently and the glass shelves are certainly different, bieng toughened safety glass as opposed to the standard glass of the originals.
When I get mine I’ll report back on my findings.
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To me they made it sound like everything was sat on top of a bloody great big church bell.
It was toppy, screechy and sucked the bottom end out of the music.
Great if you are over 50 and have no upper freq hearing left but when I heard it, it was like having a bucket over my head and Fran Drescher screaming at me.
The news stands use toughened safety glass. There are no damping pads as the guy told me he couldn’t find out the material used but suggested to me, as you have, that car sound proof matting could be used. He can send me diagrams of the exact positioning. As the glass is different though I’m not sure if this will be beneficial. I’m puzzled about the ‘base boards’. I thought the stands were just glass shelves on a metal frame - certainly those are what I have seen. Unless you mean the additional levels that people put under the racks. I wouldn’t want those anyway.
Thanks. Glass and metal racks do have a reputation for tending to sound that way but I’ve never seen Mana racks described as such. I guess it’s all relative. Some prefer the mellower sound of wooden racks.
Just for some context, here is a short quote about Mana from Martin Collom’s review of Fraim in Hi-Fi Critic:
"No longer available, the Mana had that sense of
speed and almost exaggerated dynamics for which this
design is well known, coupled with upbeat timing
and clear rhythms."
Sounds like my kind of rack!
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