Melco Mania

Very interesting thread as I’m about to pull the trigger on a new music server and keep bouncing back and forth between Melco and Innuos. I’ve done a few extended demos and usability sessions at local dealers and concur that the Innuos just seemed more friendly and easy to live with day to day. I certainly didn’t find it lacking compared to the Melco hardware sound quality wise either.

Has anyone tried setting up and using the Innuos server as a Roon Core? This for me was a nice USP as I wanted to go in that direction and not need yet another NUC/NAS/Mac Mini acting as a Roon Core.

I have a reasonable library but nothing crazy so expect it would cope with the indexing and searching functions.

Keen to hear on Roon/Innuos evaluations anyway, if any.

Hi @Mr.M, I have an Innuos Zen Mk3 set up as a Roon core, I have about 2000 files on the library, works very well, no problems so far, easy to set up and get running, I’m running local files Tidal and Qobuz.

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I tried and very much liked the Roon interface. Roon will generate its own metadata, so even less reason to fixed the already excellent Innuos ripping. Roon is so much better at accessing your music, but you have to ask whether it’s worth the money to you, because I doubt it will make the music sound better. It also does not at present use the memory buffering of the Innuos. Generally the further up the Innuos range you go the better the sound IMHO.

Phil

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Appreciate the insight, I’ve yet to hear or read any strongly negative views on the Innuos products, I wasn’t clear on if the Zen running Roon Core supported any advanced DSP/Processing functions or if it was mainly focused on running the database and UI aspects of Roon.
I need to do more digging on it but given the universal appeal of Roon and the numerous benefits it brings I’m likely to gravitate in that direction over time as I move more to a predominately file based digital library and consolidate my media in to one place. I have boxes and boxes of CD’s I’m not able to access or enjoy easily and realised that clinging on to my CD transport probably doesn’t make sense or give me a simple user experience.
I still tend to find and buy CD’s as the format is cheap and well supported, I’ve also complimented that over time with online services like Society of Sound and more recently Qobuz.
I’ve yet to embrace Tidal but do use Spotify and Apple Music, partly as they are shared resources within the family and we also have general purpose Sonos systems dotted around the house for ease of use and to keep things simple for me!

Is there a view if the filtered Ethernet interfaces on the Innuos server give any sonic uplift? I imagine this is similar in effect to the split interfaces on the Melco servers.
It’s worth adding I certainly liked what I heard of the Melco servers very much but my experience of actually trying to use it was weak as the dealer seemed keen to only focus on how it sounded and not how easy it was to rip, add metadata, enable advanced features and so forth. I get that it’s in a sense about the pursuit of sound quality but they seemed to lose the point that I was the customer and I wanted a balance between sound quality, usability and certainly cost. I’m not prepared to pay £8-10k for an optimised PC with a decent linear PSU basically.

When I started in the world of the improved music servers, Melco was the golden name. If I would need to select again now, there would be more options. However I am not so interested in all the bells and whistles, just sound quality and a decent amount of onboard storage capacity. Haven’t heard a comparison between options but would be interested to hear it…

Digging in a bit more…, and interesting review on ear.net of the statement of them…

http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-statement-network-audio-server

Hi Mr. M,
A summary of what I have learned from lots of reading, speaking to dealers & importers etc.:
The Melco servers do not have the processing speed to run Roon Core, nor is it apparently on Melco’s development plan to do so (I learned at a dealer event recently). However, very good sound quality, especially for Chord dacs. Ripping cds on to the Melco N1ZH/2 was very easy.

The Innuos Zenith III apparently is the minimum level recommended to run Roon Core, though it does not have the processing speed to cope with heavy DSP + multi-room modes (for those that need this). Previous versions of the Zenith and lower spec Innuos servers may not be recommended by Roon. The default choice for many who use a Naim streamer or Chord dac. Ripping cds is also straightforward - insert and forget until it is ejected.

The Antipodes CX server can run Roon Core. The Antipodes EX can just about cope with relatively light Roon processing but not full DSP and multi-room etc. Expensive but apparently one of the best for sound quality (I have not heard these myself).

Audiostore Prestige 3: equivalently easy to use as an Innuos Zenith III, can run the most demanding Roon Core implementations, has a second ethernet connection (I don’t know how quality compares with say Innuos or Melco), uses the same operating software as Antipodes, UK based and the least expensive. Ripping cds is also straightforward - insert and forget until it is ejected.

Naim Uniti Core: Naim’s in-house offering and designed to go with Naim streamers. Does not support Roon.

I ended up buying the Prestige 3, powered by an external linear power supply. The second choice was the excellent Innuos Zenith III. It only beat the Zenith because it was £1,000 less expensive.

Others’ experiences and impressions will be different, so will make their own buying decisions. For example, if you decide to buy a Roon Nucleus or Nucleus+ to be the Roon Core, then it will work with any of the above named servers, including the Melco ones. However, I don’t understand why one would buy a £2-7k server that can run Roon Core and pay £1,500-2,500 for a Nucleus to be the Roon Core. I would either buy a server that can be the Roon Core, or just put a 2-3TB solid state drive into an Intel NUC.

Hope this helps, BF

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There is a Technics server with cd ripper ST- G30, the ssd can and in my case would need upgrading to a larger one. Gets a few good reviews on build quality and sound, its about £3k

I have a mini Zen II with a Nova and can’t fault it.
Easy and straightforward to use and rip CDs to.
Sound is very good.
One of the best value buys I’ve made.

I have another topic which starts to get more and more attention from my side. If you have a huge library like me you get to the point where my 6tb on the Melco is not sufficient anymore and you need to connect another external average drive. With that you are getting to A quality of what is n the Melco itself and B quality for what’s on the other drive. As the problem emerged I don’t have a good separation between files where I like A and the ones where B quality is also good.
I think none of the supplier has well thought about the larger libraries besides Aurender who have 24tb on board…, while I don’t know the sound quality of them.

Anybody having the best idea to solve the challenge of the large library ?

I dropped Innuos an email with a few questions, within an hour sales forwarded it to a Product Specialist, all answered very clearly and concise and no sales pitch.

Interesting i asked about the best way to connect and was told, do it the way Naim intended (ethernet).

Naim tends to have strong Ethernet implementations, so connecting it to the Streamer port on the ZENmini Mk3 might be the better approach.

Excellent feedback from all and appreciate the insight. The tinkering mentality in me wants to go build something from a bag of bits off the Internet but at the same time there are a decent amount of off the shelf products that aren’t crazy money that do a very good job. I started off looking at the Uniti Core as it seemed an obvious fit in an all Naim ecosystem but I’ve yet to find many people who are claiming it’s the unquestionable winner in this category.
I’ve certainly given a fair bit of thought to both Melco and Innuos options, I especially liked the more modestly (but with compromises, accepted) priced options from both Melco in the N100 and Innuos in the Zen Mini Mk 3.
I’ll take a look at the audio focused PC hardware options, the Audiostore kit seems well regarded and capable and wallet friendly. Appreciate the comments on the limitations in hardware particular to Roon Core, this could be a bit of a rabbit hole in my case but If I’m going to invest in Roon I’d like to get as much out of it as it has to offer and if I end up spending £2-3K on a Server that claims Roon support and then leaves me wanting more that’s a disappointing journey to go on.

How about a Tidal and Roon subscription, with local storage just for stuff you like best, or is not available online?

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I like the best quality of my music, and that’s still locally stored. Tidal doesn’t get their, while good. Also not available high resolution wise…

Some are finding that Roon levels the playing field, and gives the same sound quality with Tidal and local streams, which is why I suggested both Roon and Tidal together. Or perhaps Roon and Qobuz if HiRes is a priority, although I can see that you would be reluctant to abandon a large and expensive collection of HiRes purchases.

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Mike - It’s not galvanically isolated beyond the normal isolation that exists due to the small pulse transformers on the port. The confusion came about due to Melcos vague description of the product features and lazy journalism. There is no additional opto isolation. Still it’s an excellent product with great support and works very well. Depending on the network setup, the Melco does provide the extra benefit of the ‘quiet’ player port. I must admit if i hadn’t gone the Roon route and moved to the Nucleus with internal drive for music storage, i would be giving the Innuos serious thought - as a high quality, ripping, storage and serving solution it’s a no brainer.

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So with a Melco or Innuous I assume the switch in the chain is redundant ?

If that’s the final network device before the player then yes. Just connect the network player to the ‘quiet’ player port and you are done. In my Melco days, i found it still sensitive to what is in front of it from a network perspective so something like a Cisco Catalyst series switch is useful here. In my non Naim system, the study based 2960 / Nucleus sounds as good as my old Melco N1A sat in my rack. Others my find different results of course but it works nicely for me. It also means for any changes i make in the future, the ‘noisy’ stuff stays elsewhere and just the audio kit (and a network connection) remain at the rack.

Between the Melco or Innuos and streamer it is, but I found adding a Cisco switch pre-Server is a nice addition. Took me a little while to discover that as I’d assumed it wouldn’t have any effect.

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The logic of having two Ethernet ports on servers like the Melco or Innuos is that the important audio data moving between the hard drive in the server and the streamer is isolated from the noise on the rest of the network. The data coming in from the LAN interface, which is the path to and from the Internet is also subject to some degree of processing of data mainly in terms of reducing clock jitter and noise which is being generated by other equipment on the LAN and the Ethernet cables themselves to an extent. How that is implemented differs between manufacturers, the most effective method is to break the electrical chain between the interfaces using an optical bridge which isolates electrical noise between interfaces and allows for reclocking to improve timing and reduce jitter. This is what Melco do hence many people who hear it compared to say a Uniti Core finding it sounds more open and less veiled as Melco put a lot of effort in to removing the noise from the rest of the network and making sure whatever goes out on the Streamer interface is nicely cleaned up.
Innuos do noise filtering to electrically remove and thus ignore certain frequencies which cause issues with how the audio data is received.
They both go to some effort also to make sure that the noise from the server itself is kept to a minimum using high quality linear power supplies and multiple power rails to further isolate the subsystems inside the server.
Most of the cost of these products comes from all the components which are there to either isolate noise or reduce it as much as is possible to ensure that what leaves A arrives at B as the same thing.

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