How you view upgradability is of course a matter for each of us. To me, the beauty of the Rega is that itās fit and forget. The Michell, like the Linn, is perfect for those who want to upgrade. But if you just want to enjoy your records in great quality at a sensible price, non-upgradability has an awful lot to recommend it. Constantly thinking of the next upgrade is a sure fire way of ensuring that one doesnāt enjoy oneās music in the here and now.
4 Likes
What youāll end up with if capacitance is too high is rolled off highs and a peak in the freq just before that. Might be that some people find that pleasing, but whether that should be described as āworks rather wellā Iām not sure.
@1GiantLeap for the turntable Iād add the Technics tables to the list. The GR should fit your budget.
If youāre going to ignore the capacitance (see above / google MM capacitance), I would also the consider Nagaoka carts in addition to whatās already been suggested. But I would recommend trying to find one thatās designed for this kind of input capacitance.
2 Likes
Just get this with the pre fitted mm cartridge. Saves endless fiddling. It looks good, itās well made, it comes ready to play with cartridge fitted and pre aligned. Put it somewhere level, that bit you need to do yourself, and youāre done.
3 Likes
From what I can make out, Naim have always used 470pF on their MM inputs (the N boards and Nait 1, 2) - often in conjunction with a 62k input impedance.
The SN3 demo to the media used an Adikt cartridge and Iām sure Iāve read that Rega Elys 2 and a Clearaudio one were used during development of the new MM stage.
Iām using an Adikt with my SN3 and have also tried one of the Audio Technica VM95 series with very good results.
2 Likes
Well those are normal 150-200pf cartridges. And I presume they sound alright.
You donāt see many threads titled āI canāt find a darn MM compatible with Naim phono stageā
I assume thereās a reason for that.
1 Like
Hi I use a reference PowerKord for all my power cables. I have just ordered a Evolution 300 PowerKord for the power supplier for my P 8 Neo TT Psu.
1 Like
Iād say P8 for 150 albums is extremely fine, maybe you get more vinyl on a longer term.
Otherwise a cheaper solution if you unsure of media.
Lots of good MM cartridges (or high output MC) available.
I guess the MM stage inside SN3 is on level with earlier Stageline/522N cards.
2M Bronze is not as complicated as 2M Black in VTA adjustment, so leave choice of spacer which Rega does not recommend anyway, as it compromise deck performance.
Another classic superb cartridge is Goldring G1042 or 1022gx (similar to Linn Adikt)
Also the rigB body fitted to a VM540ML should be very fine.
Theres even the more expensive VM760SLC
rigB body benefit also with insert threads for easy mount.
2 Likes
I have a Goldring 1042, it is sounding good through the XS3 version of same card in the SN3!
For complicated reasons I also have a Stageline N, once my XS3 has settled down Iām going to see how that compares to the built in phono stage.
3 Likes
I had the 2M Black on a P8 and it sounded great, but I experienced some VTA OCD 
that ended up with me getting a P10 with Apheta-3 (while HH went the spacer route 
)
Not that I am complaining, it is even better, but now I read the Rega book and they have a whole section devoted to the topic of VTA angst being a psychological condition and not a technical one ā¦
2 Likes
Another Goldring 1042 fan here. Going via Stageline N to SN1
2 Likes
That sounds like an expensive therapeutic cure
Indeed, but also a simple one Plus, when I bought the P8 a year before, it had been perfect for the system I had then and I thought the P10 was way beyond reasonable for me. But then the pandemic and I ended up with NDX2/555/252/SCDR/300DR, so by the end of the year the P10 seemed the better fit. Now I am waiting for my dealerās demo Superline and I swear then I am done
2 Likes
Not a discussion really, and not looking for answers. I have mine, the previous thread provided those.
Just advising the OP who asked for advice. Iām not saying it wonāt sound good to his ears, but I do think itās important that he realises the frequency response will be audibly altered if an MM cart is loaded incorrectly. Thatās just a scientific fact, you can google it if you want. Manufacturers provide those numbers for a reason.
But some people like tone controls, DSP and many speakers (inc. mine) donāt measure perfectly flat either, so itās not necessarily a problem.
Sure it is a fact, but the 470 value is not so atypical as was previously discussed, and I just wanted to point that out. Many people do think that Naim phonostages āwork rather wellā. You may prefer it differently and by all means let the OP know, but I think itās also fair to point out that this is not a decisive issue for many people.
(Edit: To be clear, my inclusion of a reference to you was intended as a courtesy and jokingly, not to attack you)
1 Like
Famous last words!
2 Likes
Not sure about it not being a-typical. None of the MM carts mentioned in this thread can be correctly (according to their manufacturers spec) loaded with the SN3. And the (few) phono stages I checked, ineed seem to have much lower values. Rega Aria which is often used by people here is 100pF, same for the MoFi and Lehmann phono pre-amps. Pro-ject is configurable, 100-220-320pF. I didnāt check any others, so happy to be proven wrong if thereās a ton out there using similarly high values to Naim.
I have not stated any preference. Iāve mentioned a few times that I can imagine it sounds great. Actually, in the thread you linked I expressed a desire to listen to a Stageline which has the same input capacitance. Iāve also mentioned in my previous reply that my speakers donāt have a flat frequency response either, evidence that that isnāt a decisive factor for me.
But of course a complication for the OP is that heās choosing a cart for the phono stage, and not the other way around. Carts are much harder to audition, so you are buying blind mostly. If you have a cart and try a different phono stage, itās easy to determine if the treble roll-off (and pre roll-off boost) bothers you or not. Or even improves things!
Maybe not here, but in general, (correct) loading of cartridges is considered quite important. impedance in the case of MC, capacitance for MM. A few stages have it configurable for that reason, but otherwise cables can also be played with.
I never interpreted it that way, no worries.
1 Like
Thanks for the long explanation.
I meant typical for Naim stages, and I havenāt seen many complaints about them. Of course you are correct about the values of Aria et al. But both Naim and Aria are both well regarded, so maybe it tells us that in reality itās not so relevant.
Indeed you did then, which was why the comment in this thread kind of surprised me, it seemed to be quite a strong statement, as if it canāt work rather well be because of the capacitance value:
Hence my (intended in good spirit) ābut I see you want other answers ā
You did mention your speakers and that flat responses are not real in the room anyway, so that makes this doubly baffling.
I donāt think that itās such a big problem. As feeling_zen already wrote, āYou donāt see many threads titled āI canāt find a darn MM compatible with Naim phono stageā. I assume thereās a reason for that.ā
The OP was considering getting back into vinyl with 150 albums in the collection and whether he might utilize the (excellent, by all accounts) built-in stage of the SN3 he already has. I donāt think that overcomplicating this is necessary.
Many things are considered quite important that might not be. E.g. see Regaās stance on VTA and adjustment mechanism that I mentioned above, while others are convinced itās extremely important to adjust it.
Very true. Naim have staked their opinion on these things based on the design. You can shell out serious money for a Superline/Supercap but you are still getting a preconfigured black box with high loading. And that might fly in the face of what some users and other manufacturers think they know. And for users who think Naim got it wrong and donāt know their ass from their elbow, Iād suggest maybe Naim phono stages arenāt for them. I think thatās okay too. Plenty of people think Naim is bonkers and vice versa.
FWIW I have a non Naim integrated in the SN3 price bracket and the loading for the MM phono stage isnāt even published.
For users convinved problems caused by this are an inescapable fact, Iād suggest buying a different phono stage. Personally, at the level of turntable and cart Iād pair with a SN3 level amp, Iād not worry about it. For the purists, there is always this:
A Luxman EQ-500
Everything is adjustable. And yet in tests, it wasnāt always found that the ācorrectā settings gave the best results. I donāt think that means the science is wrong so much as there is more to it.
3 Likes
As this discussion is getting quite long and detailed with many sub-points and quotes. I wonāt reply to every single one. Let me know if you feel I failed address any specific one that youād like me to.
I guess āworksā is very subjective in this context. It can work for you or me, but what I meant was that I donāt think you can say āworks wellā in a general sense if for most mainstream cartridges it wonāt be the sound as the manufacturers of those cartridges intended.
I was just making him aware of this, as I do think itās relevant. I donāt think this is overcomplicating things, itās important to know. Since he was asking about what to buy, this information could even help to make a decision. For example, when in doubt between two with different loading specifications. Or he could see if one does specify such loading (Iāve also suggested asking Naim which they used).
I would not put that in the same category. Iāve never seen any āevidenceā that VTA is relevant other than people saying they hear it, i.e. anecdotal. For loading of cartridges thereās tons of scientific evidence in the form of frequency response graphs. I think itās also pretty established which frequencies are audible.
1 Like