With regard to tripping circuit breakers, Naim amplifiers use comparatively large, high duty transformers and can give rise to high inrush current which may trip sensitive MCBs, the type which are intentionally installed in domestic dwellings. Commonly type B.
You should check with a professional before changing the circuit design in your home by fitting an Mcb with a higher inrush capability, for instance a type C.
Transformer inrush varies and is dependant upon when in the mains 50Hz cycle the amplifier switch contacts close. It may appear ironic that the highest inrush current occurs when the switch contacts close at zero volts, that is when the mains voltage cycle crosses zero volts. This is because the inrush current is dependant on the rate of change of voltage, which is highest at the zero crossing point.
In my system I have only managaged to trip my Type B mcb twice in two years using my nap300. It is down to luck as to when the switch contacts close in the mains cycle and whether the mcb trips.
A change to larger speakers might not be the best option in a flat with cardboard walls for neighbour relations.
I’m wondering that the new room is giving out a more neutral tone, and that the old smaller room was reinforcing bass reflections that gelled with the Naim kit. Cyrus might seem bass light in some systems, but has most probably a larger bandwidth that your hearing more of. Maybe switch the new listening spot more nearfield and with speakers closer together.
With respect, there’s not much to know about a simple domestic ring mains…an RCD, an MCB, a few bits of cable and a few cheap sockets.
Logically, if I brought a previously good sounding system into a different environment, installed it and found it sounded crap and tripped the mains at switch on, the very first thing I’d do is make sure that it wasn’t the mains that was causing the problem.
You want to make a Naim system sound really bad, connect it to a cheap and nasty surge protected power strip. Given it’s (and practically any amp’s) sensitivity to mains quality, checking the ring supply is an obvious place to start troubleshooting its performance, especially when its related to lack of liveliness and bass drive.
To the OP. Do you have another room in the house that has similar dimensions to your old listening room? Yes,it will be different due to different construction etc, but I think that briefly trying it i. There would help you determine if it is the size of the roo. That is the issue, which might justify considering different speakers, or if it might be so ething else.
Interestingly I used my old IMF TLS 50 speakers in a range of rooms, of dofferent constructions and dimensions, the largest room double the size of the smallest, and they never sounded bad. And I then used my IMF RSPM speakers also in a range of rooms, and they only sounded bad in one - due to cancellations, which I resolved with the help of REW, resulting in a complete re-evaluation of room layout.from that originally envisaged, then sounding good. I don’t know if this is a characteristic of transmission line speaker loading, my insensitive ears, or luck, but by and large I am not convinced that with decent speakers it is not possible to find a solution. (However, with compromised speakers life may be different…)
Regarding mains and whether the circuit breaker has adequate peak capacity, I don’t think that has anything to do with it: it might affect nuances, but not the ability to deliver the basics. Indeed, if the circuit breaker hasn’t adequate capacity to deal with the demand when music is playing, it will trip in use, not just with the switch-on surge, something for which torroidal transformers are renowned for presenting as a challenge to the electrics.
The bad sound is a clue that something in set up is not correct. The MCB tripping at switch on could be an indication that it may be the mains supply that is not altogether healthy. A bad contact somewhere on the ring, a contaminated socket, an incorrectly wired socket, bad earth contacts, a noisy component on the same ring, a worn out MCB with burned contacts…any number of things could be causing the problem…the MCB is just an indicator that its worth investigating the mains supply, given its unknown and untested quality and the negative impact it can have on sound quality.
You are just demonstrating again, despite your dismissive comment earlier, that you really don’t understand how electrical circuits work, even simple household ones.
This isn’t a mains problem causing the loss of SQ, although a more suitable breaker would be a good and cheap investment for the OP, to save the startup resets.
I’ll bet Dan.S is wondering why he bothered. Apart from one or two reasonable suggestions, most of the twenty odd posts seem to be more about posters’ egos than trying to help solve his issue.
Well David you and I I will just have to agree to disagree, because while the OPs problem may have other underlying reasons, mains power and earth quality can have a major impact of sound quality.
Way back in the days of my first Naim system I bought a 42.5, 250 and Isobariks with an LP12 source. I loved the sound of this set up at the dealers; big, juicy, musical, foot stomping with a huge boogy factor but at home I just could not obtain the magic. My dealer suggested that I’d be better off with a 32.5 so we swapped the 42.5 and tried again. Long story short, I made no progress until another dealer suggested replacing the power strip I was using in the room’s only spare socket with a popular Sun Leister. This German made device was probably one of the first to use better mains cable and a star earth to ensure that all connected devices enjoyed the same earth impedance. The transformation was instant and extremely rewarding…the system going on to deliver years of rewarding music. That system went through a series of upgrades, including 135s, Naxo, 52, SuperCaps, Armageddon, Aro, active Isobariks, Troikas and later some SBLs. In order to provide sufficient power I was advised to install dedicated mains lines, which again brought significant improvements. During this period we moved to Germany into a rented house, so I could not do any wholesale rewiring and I lacked the immediate language skills to discuss my needs with an electrician so ended up once again having to use locally obtained power strips plugged into the living room mains circuit. The sound quality took a major step backwards. Thankfully obtaining a pair of 6 position Sun Leister again rescued the situation and restored the drive, liveliness and plummy agile bass that I had become accustomed to. Throughout this entire time the one thing I could never get my head around was the care that Naim obviously took in designing and building its power supplies juxtapositioned with the sensitivity of said supplies to mains quality. One of our R&D engineers, who was also a hi-fi fanatic put if down to the fact that different earth impedances will generate potential differences between components. His solution of a star earthing arrangement certainly seemed to resolve the situation very effectively. The exact same situation could arise in a domestic environment where the 272 and 250 are plugged into duplex sockets or a less than optimal strip. When you are used to a Naim system playing optimally a small step backwards can really seem to rob the music of vitality and life.
It is - as soon as a high horse arrives in the stable.
To try and be helpful - I doubled the size of my living room from 25sq.m to 50sq.m a couple of years back. I dry lined by hard walls and put in a limestone floor. I changed my speakers from efficient PMC floor standers to less than efficient KEF stand mounts. My 250DR drives them to deafening levels without going much past 9 o’clock, for the CD input, and the bass can shake the furniture. My speakers still sit in the same position in the new room - about 2.3m apart, 300mm off the wall and 2.5m from my ears when I am sitting. They are pretty much in free space. I think you need to play around with speaker and furniture positions. Your equipment should easily deliver the sound you want.
Been there, done that. Moved from a period brick and high ceilings to a modern concrete and glass. After years of trying, the sound is still nowhere near the old experience. It cannot be fixed within the constraints of domestic decor. Seriously considering moving because of it.
Shame we can’t drag our systems round to audition houses when we view. Although a basic slap echo test had warned me, but I thought it would be fixable.
The Cyrus sucks as well, all the music is gutless and I need to really crank the volume to start enjoy something. I could get used to the fact that until I replace the bookshelves with something bigger, this is what I get and there’s no way around it.
But the fact that the Cyrus gives more low end than the Naim gets me worried. COuld it be something wrong with my power amp? It sounds just fine, its just gutless, unless I go beyond 50 on my 272 volume. Checked everything, wires related. The 272 is connected to the 250DR through the DIN Pre-Out not DIN Line Out. Don’t want to blow my speakers.
When I first got my present speakers I was suffering from a bit of bass boom and also distortion at loud lisening levels. The speakers where in my living room where there is lots of furniture, a carpet and lots of shelves full of stuff soas an experiment one Sunday I dragged the whole system into the dining room which is a bigger, fairly empty room with no carpet or curtains and that has three doors one entrance being double glass patio doors.
The music when I put it on was as you described, it was as if the life had been sucked out now although the room was different in the ways I’ve described but it has the same floor, wall and ceiling construction so I can only put it down to the fact that it was bigger and emptier.
It must be really upsetting for you but this new house isn’t responding to your system and I would say perhaps this bigger room needs bigger, more efficient speakers this is maybe why when you crank it up you get some of your old system back.
Excuse me if I’m being thick but speed reading through most of the unhelpful posts I couldn’t find reference to which speakers you have.
Reminds me of my Prague days @Blackmorec - I had a four pack which tripped every time I turned them on. In that apartment block the fuse block was at the base of the stairs and I lived on top floor. I got a lot of exercise every time there was a power cut.
It’s all about the room IMHO. Moved my active Briks from 12’ x 15’ from room with suspended floor (amazing bass) to new extension 20’ x 50’ (where’s the bass gone!) A few tweaks later and I’d got maybe 50% of the bass back but after living with it for a while I’ve got used to the more balanced presentation. There’s less overhang and more detail for sure, but I do sometimes hanker after that truly deep bass that you feel as much as hear.
As I mentioned in a precious post I had a very similar problem and went through some equipment upgrades hoping to resolve the problem. Had some improvements but honestly the music left me flat and easily bored. I was really disappointed considering how much I enjoyed the system in my previous house and how much I’d spent on the gear.
I decided to use the REW software with a microphone. Sent the results to GIK for analysis and they gave me suggestions for room treatment. Bought the stuff and put it in a couple of days ago.
Can’t believe the improvement. I want to go and listen to music again!
Next few days I’ll make a post on my experience. I would seriously advise you to look into it. It might provide a solution to the problems your having.
Spud
Great speakers I had the much smaller X32s for a couple of years great range from a great company. I had a 250DR with my current Dynaudio speakers and it was a fantastic combination one of the best I’ve ever owned.
Plasterboard walls can absorb bass frequencies yet reinforce higher frequencies causing them to reflect round the room. This makes it difficult to achieve a flat response. Acoustic treatment the only solution.
Play a 120htz tone and see if you can hear it solidly at the listening position, you may be sitting in a null area.
