Mu-so amplifier design

… yet :wink:

besides being brilliant, its a gateway product, you may find :upside_down_face:

Joking aside. I can see converging technologies as and when and if Naim master them. Trickle down effect in play. In 5 years a NAPD500DSP anyone? In my long relation with Naim many questions I asked was met with “never” until it was possible :grin:

You can find a whitepaper at NAD It sounds similar to what Naim alludes to what they are doing for Mu-so. I’m intrigued because it’s very different approach that carries a lot of advantages.

The standard hi-fi system will remain niche. The question is how to take those audiophile values and engineer them to work in different environments. Naim is pushing the envelope in that market.

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Adam, unfortunately forum rules make that impossible. If you wish to read it, look for the Direct Digital White Paper, although it comes across more like an ad.

Hi Kevin – I don’t think Naim is doing anything particularly novel here. As others have mentioned, the Muso uses Class D amps, an efficient way of getting decent power in a small package. In the Muso you’ve effectively got 6 amplifiers so Class D makes sense to keep size, weight and cost down.

Naim make extensive use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to tailor the sound of the Muso, to account for its placement (eg boundary or open space) and to provide a loudness function for lower volumes. It also implements crossover functions in DSP so the amplifiers serving the treble, mid and bass only deal with those specific frequencies.

I suspect the Muso is just the implementing some of the usual functions of a Class D amp in the DSP section. In most Class D amps, an analogue input signal first needs converting into a digital PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal using a PWM modulator. This PWM signal is used to drive the output stage before final low pass filtering. In the Muso, all the processing has already been done in the digital domain so it would make sense for the digital PWM signal generation for each amplifier to be integrated into the DSP section.

James

I finally found a post from Naim discussing the Processing chain. According to this article on Direct digital amplification, the PCM signal is processed by DSP and then sent directly to the output stage. So, it’s apparently different than the standard Class D amplification as their no conversion to analogue. They also have some a special feedback circuit. So, what strikes me from the Naim post is that it sounds very similar.

Clearly, other manufactures think this approach can reach audiophile standards. Naim has said in other posts that standard Class D isn’t good enough. So, maybe there adopting something along these direct digital amplification lines.

The relevant question there is what was Naim talking about: i.e. “good enough” for what? I think that at least in simplistic terms there is a distinction between what Naim thinks is good enough for boxes that aim to be pretty high up the hifi ladder, and what it thinks is good enough for a far more basic replay unit, whether it be Muso, Qube, or something to play in the confines and limitations of a car. And however much the limitations of D-class or whatever may make Naim not use it in the hifi gear, I suspect the Muso would simply not exist without it as otherwise it would be a lot bigger.

Of course, that comment would have applied to the time it was stated, and whatever Naim thought of D-class at any past point in time need not necessarily mean that with improvements it will never be possible for them to develop something that sounds as good or better than their existing amps - a case of never say never.

I have links embedded in the response above, but it’s not clear if anyone can actually see them.

They can’t apply the same technology to the Mu-so’s as they would for their standard gear. However, it looks to me that they put a lot of effort to make the Mu-so 2nd sound as good as possible within its limitations. Those direct digital amplifiers need really good power supplies, which is Naim’s speciality.

So, you could be right that it’s just their own take on a standard Class D. However, if they went direct digital, that might have allowed them to get to a performance level above the typical class D while keeping everything compact. One of the advantages of the Mu-so, is they control every aspect of the sound, so they can really dial things in.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but it would be great if Naim could illuminate the enthusiasts…

No links please to other brands or commercial websites in the Hifi Corner. Thank you.

Hi Kevin - At the end of the day though it’s a wireless music system, voiced in the Naim way so if you’re using it in a multi-room environment (say with a Naim separates system in the lounge) you’re not going to feel short changed as you move to the kitchen where you have a Muso or QB. It’s got to be flexible in placement, be easy to manufacture in volume (in China) and meet a certain price point.

The ultimate limitation is the small cabinet and drivers so the amplifier technology Naim have chosen is more than adequate for this particular application - better amplification here is not going to gain anything. Getting the best out of the chosen technology is Naim’s forte. I wouldn’t get too hung up on the technology used and just enjoy what the Muso has to offer. It’s an accomplished piece of kit and is deserving of the Naim badge.

Hi Richard,

I’m still new to this forum. Does links to audiophile mags/sites prohibited or just if they are evaluating other manufacturer’s gear?
thanks

I interested in the technology precisely because I’ve really been enjoying the Muso 2nd gen. So, I’m just indulging in some geekery…

In the Hifi corner please don’t link to anything except the Naim website or threads within this forum. I also sometimes allow links to Naim reviews, where they have been authorised by Naim.

It stops anyone outside of Naim from abusing the forum and using it to promote their own commercial interests.

Fair enough- good luck in your search for enlightenment :slightly_smiling_face:

I’ve heard the Cyurs One (original), which I think was pretty good. So even if not at top level (wouldn’t know myself), class D can compete with more traditional designs up to a point.

Also, but this is speculation, I feel like class A and B have pretty much been evolved as far as they’ll go. We’re going to get incremental improvements perhaps, but nothing revolutionary. I feel like class D still has the possibility of surprising everyone with a big jump in quality in the future.

I don’t rule out them competing at a very high level: look at, for example Devialet (though I heaven’t heard for myself)

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