Music Streaming - it's hard to find the right time

I’ll start with a post here and then move to the Bartok thread if there are no replies.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a set of balanced XLR cables?
I need a set to go from the Bartok out to a Stax headphone amplifier. DCS has confirmed that the balanced XLR out is preferable to the unbalanced RCA out.

I am not all that familiar with XLR cables as my knowledge is limited to various Chord interconnects for use with Naim components. On the DCS forum ( a rather small forum) it seems that people are recommending pro versions such as Mogami or Canare. I am a bit hesitant, or rather I question, the use of $50 XLR cables? Maybe I am too used to Chord, HiLine and SuperLumina prices. On the flip side it seems that XLR cables offer a better vfm than the type of interconnects we are used to seeing here in Naim land.

Well, Mogami and Canare are what the professional audio industry uses for its balanced connectors and very good they are too.

By all means spend more if you wish. Atlas Mavros is what I understand DCS uses for some of its own equipment, though I may be wrong on this. Why not buy a set of Canare cables from Mark Grant (or similar), then demo a set of the Atlas?

Best regards, BF

I’m another Canare XLR user . They are excellent cables , very transparent with excellent shielding . The ones I have are made by Benchmark using Canare cable and quality Neutrik Connectors . They are identical to the ones Mark Grant makes in the UK . I certainly wouldn’t be put off by the reasonable price .

Pete T - thanks for the Benchmark recommendation. The name Mark Grant has come up several times in my searches. Benchmark is in NY as I am.

Bluesfan - I have inquired on the DCS forum about Atlas Mavros. Curious to see how they reply. Scotland - maybe I need to ditch my Chord MUSIC RCA/DIN from the KDS and go with a Scottish made Atlas :laughing:

Other recommendations coming from that forum are Iconoclast made by BlueJean (a higher end cable developed by an ex Belkin engineer and manufactured by BlueJean), AudioEnvy from Colorado, and Oyaide.

XLR - it is a new world (confusing)

1 Like

In the studio you just want the thing to bloody work (and take quite a bit of handling abuse). The whole “what the studios endorse” thing is very misleading.

2 Likes

Just saying a quick hello on this thread so as to make sure it does not close after two months of inactivity.
I think there may be a few more postings to come :wink:

That’s great, Good of you to keep it alive.
As someone who lives just a few miles from DCS, I’m delighted that your Bartok continues to deliver the goods.

Best regards, BF

1 Like

We are waiting new feelings from you :grin::+1:

WELL - since there are now TWO of you asking :blush:

I am going to take the lazy way out and copy and paste. Since Naim does not allow private messaging on the forum - but dCS does - I have had a few exchanges with Dunc to find out how he is doing with his new Rossini.

I have had the Bartok here for exactly one month. Below is a copy of my initial exchange with him and details of my month long journey. Please keep in mind that my 552/500 is currently away and undergoing both recap and DR. In other words it is impossible for me to demo via my Naim system - and really not necessary (at least initially) as the Bartok was purchased for use in a separate headphone system in my bedroom (* this may now change). The Focal Utopia headphones are like any great speaker - they are easily capable of showing any changes made to the source.

In a nutshell I could easily live with the Bartok for what I want to use it for. Unfortunately there is also better - and I tend not to know when to stop until I arrive there.
More to come.

Best
Gregg


I have been using a Linn Klimax DS in my Naim system since 2011 always upgraded to current specification. When I made the move to digital from a CD555 Naim had only released the unimpressive HDX. The NDS had yet to be released. I and many other Naim forum members at the time migrated to Linn and have not looked back.

The Bartok was never intended to replace the KDS in my system but rather be used in a new stand alone headphone system in my master bedroom. It looked like an interesting solution being an all in one streamer/DAC/headphone amplifier. Past CanJam headphone shows in NY allowed for demos of the Chord TT2 and Dave - both sounding thin, lightweight and uninvolving. I was able to have a Bartok demo at a local shop followed by a second demo at CanJam . I felt comfortable enough ordering one “pre Covid” and it was shipped prior to dCS closing. It has now been here for one month.

Please keep in mind that my impressions are based exclusively listening to the Bartok via headphones - specifically Focal Utopias. This was the original reason for the purchase - headphone listening. On a side note my 552/500 are currently at Chris West’s for a 15 year recap and DR so I am unable to listen to the Bartok in the context of my Naim system.

After allowing 100 hours of burn in I spent one week listening to the Bartok via its internal headphone amplifier and then another few days comparing it to my Klimax DS through an external HeadAmp GSX Mini headphone amplifier. What I found was that the Linn beat the Bartok - expected when considering the cost differential. Not a fair comparison financially HOWEVER the Bartok did amazingly well and imho can be considered incredible value for money and almost a giant killer based upon its price/performance. I would score Bartok 88 Linn KDS 100. As usual with HiFi an exorbitant amount of money would be required to obtain the last 10%. The Linn still had more detail, sounded more real with greater air and room around instruments and voices. It also has PRAT and involvement.

My problem was while the Bartok was meant for casual listening in the bedroom my ears remain used to the Linn’s high level of performance. My initial thoughts were now to think about sourcing a second KDS preloved from my dealer. I immediately started doubting the wisdom of having TWO Klimax DS’s. It was then that a new thought entered my mind and musings about a Rossini started to take place. The thought was since the Bartok was offering up such respectable performance at its price a Rossini had a real chance of actually beating my Linn. I started contemplating the possibility of owning both and swapping them every 6 months between the headphone and Naim 2 channel system. A different flavor of the month when the mood desired.

I then had an interesting discussion with my dCS salesman (who previously sold Naim/Linn) and discussed some of my Bartok concerns and he then suggested I conduct an experiment. Leave the interconnect cables and HeadAmp GSX amp as the constant and compare strictly the Bartok as a DAC (no headphone amp) vs. the Linn KDS DAC.

This new experiment has just ended and the results were very interesting. Where as before it was Bartok 88/Linn 100 I now see it as Bartok 95/Linn 100. It appears to me that the Bartok’s internal headphone amplifier was holding back the Bartok’s DAC resolving capabilities. Now the Bartok EASILY had detail, realism, air and space which made it a worthy competitor to the Linn - and now extremely impressive at $13.5k vs. $24k.

What I would be interested in hearing from you is your thoughts on the Bartok vs. Rossini and what differences you are finding between the two. Now that I have been able to hear the Bartok strictly as a DAC I have found that it perhaps surpasses the Linn in rendering detail, weight, sparkle and air. The main place where it lets me down is in those mythical qualities of Naim PRAT, timing and INVOLVEMENT. I seem to recall you posting on the Naim forum about the hairs standing up on your body when you listened to the Rossini. That is what I am missing from the Bartok. Previous dCA boxes have been accused of being ultra detailed and resolving yet missing PRAT and involvement. I believe with the new Bartok and Rossini 2.0 dCS have now changed direction. Actually the internal headphone amplifier of the Bartok seems to flavor the proceedings with a slight bit of PRAT - although this comes at a slight loss of detail, resolution, air and space.

So in the end I my question is how have you found the PRAT and timing of the Rossini? Compared to the Bartok is the bass more driving and rhythmic, are your toes tapping more, does the band sound like they are playing together and in a groove? I am sure you completely understand the questions I am asking as this is exactly what we get from our Naim systems - perhaps you even more as you have been using a Naim NDS as a source while I have been using my Linn. Is the Rossini more Naim like than the Bartok? Does it give you the Naim PRAT of your NDS - does the excitement listening to music make the, to quote you, the hairs stand up on your body. I need to figure this out if I am to embark on an even larger financial investment.

I look forward to your reply - and unfortunately I also assume you will mention the elephant in the room which I have not written about above - the Rossini external clock! While I welcome your comments about it as well for now I need to focus on hearing your feedback about a stand alone Rossini. The icing on the cake is optional and can come later.

3 Likes

This concisely summarises my impression of the bare Rossini. It is much more resolving than the Bartok and has a better sense of PRAT, though even then I found it to be somewhat cold & uninvolving.

As you correctly surmise and fear, it’s the clock that makes ALL the difference to a Rossini, yet not to a Bartok, especially when it comes to involvement. If your Linn Klimax scores 100, then be prepared for a Rossini + clock to score 120-130 ish on whatever subjective scale you choose.

As you are in the USA, please do try an MSB Premier + Powerbase, just to be sure. The relative pricing may be much better for the MSB than it is here in the UK.

I hope this post doesn’t worsen the itch that must be scratched…

Best regards, BF

1 Like

Now you are trying to scare me!

In the end did you ever have the opportunity to demo the KDS/3 (latest version)?
Were your Bartok and Rossini demos done through Naim equipment?

I definitely think running anything through a 552/500 will impart some Naim PRAT to the equation.
It is a shame I do not have my 552/500 available for demo purposes. Unfortunately I do not think I will see them back to me until sometime in the summer.

I have had a few conversations with the dealer so we will see what happens. I even mentioned the clock :wink:

Naim will open in Salisbury in 3 days. So maybe at the end of May… I hope to you.

Wow - now that is good news
Was this posted anywhere?

1 Like

I received it from Naim today: Naim Newsletter April

In late March, Naim Audio made the tough but necessary decision to temporarily close the factory during these unprecedented times. We have been overwhelmed with your continuous support on social media, our community forum and even through email. Thank you!

During this time, our departments were working to find solutions that would go beyond the government’s guidelines to ensure the well-being of our dedicated staff. We are elated to announce that we have now started a phased return to production, under a distanced regime designed to ensure the safety of our teams. It is great to see our hand-crafted hi-fi now once again being created here in Salisbury.

While planning our phased return, we also thought about your welfare too. UK customers will now be able to receive products directly from the Naim warehouse. Please ask your retailer for this option when you place your order. Many of our great dealers, worldwide are also offering direct shipping options for in-stock items.

We are also pleased to share that our skilled Naim Service & Repair team will start accepting units from Monday 4th May. In the meantime, the team is working to get pre-lockdown units back to their owners. If your unit is having an issue, please remember to contact our excellent support team: support@naimaudio.com or call on +44 (0) 1722 443405

If you were not already a member, we would also love to welcome you to our Naim Forum, where you can join a community of Naim users from around the world

Sign Up

Gregg i wont go over all we talked about, but if you want to post it up thats fine by me, but for now.

The Bartok is a fantastic tool and for now just enjoy mate.

Let’s just say that Dunc seems quite happy with his Rossini :wink:

Thank you - I will enjoy the BARTOK while I wait to see what the dealer comes up with.

FR - nice to know that Naim are back up and running

2 Likes

We both know where its all leading, dont we ross, err i mean gregg lol

Regrettably yes. One comparison via 552/500, another via 252/300. All amps DR’ed.

Apologies, BF

No apologies required. What counts is the end result - of which you said:

You basically seem to be saying that with the external clock I should be happy :wink:

Not sure you will prefer it to the DS3.
Personally I much more preferred the DS3 vs Rossini. However the later without a clock.
The Rossini is more upfront and leaner. The DS3 is more analogue like.
But each ears are different.

Bluesfan enjoyed the best the Msb premier.
But another member here is a bit disappointed by it. He throwed 20k on it and now is thinking of upgrading it with another ps or a clock.

So be careful. Only your ears will tell you the truth.