I think I would not exclude mechanical vibration as the Peeked base of the G3 is supposed to have some effect.
Phil
Ah, that sort of makes sense! Given that I’ve never been present at a recording, all the live music I’ve heard over the years (primarily rock and metal) has been considerably more distorted than any recording, and I’ve never listened to music played on a higher spec. hifi, I guess I’m in luck! I can hear no distortion of any description, all the music I play in my lounge, on my system sounds fabulous.
Provided I keep away from any higher specced ‘sorted’ system I hopefully will never be tempted to start messing with what I have (particularly as I have no desire to spend more than I’ve
already parted with).
Thanks for your response (and saving me piles of cash!).
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My Electromagnetic theory hasn’t been tested for 50 years, but here goes.
On the rectification side if we look at the capacitor charging current (generating the EM field), the switch on duration will increase in proportion to the current being drawn from the power supply. The period of the charging current is twice mains frequency, but the harmonic structure of the charging current depends on how long the current flows for. So volume will affect the noise in different parts of the audible spectrum moving to lower frequencies at higher volume (my feel for the analysis).
As DB suggests, loops in the earth signal path are bad. We all understand that transformers work with lots of loops, but we don’t do this hopeful. Also we don’t just consider the power supply because audio signal current can couple as well in the currents flowing through the Burndies. So the routing of the signal cables relative to Burndies can create loops inadvertently. You could think of a loop as two wires with fixed ends but run one inside the other so there is a limit to the movement of the wires.
So I would suggest that checking for loops is worthwhile. You may feel that this then makes it difficult for your IC to hang freely without touching Burndies. I share your frustration.
Phil
Hi DB,
I do not understand the subtended loop concept. Can you give an example, where does it start and where does it go before It returns? Does it start at the CU or from the wall socket or ???
As you see, I need educating.
And do I understand correctly that you run your Naim kit off one electric circuit (whether radial or ring) with a double socket, say, with one socket for your NAP(s) and the other for the powerblock used for the rest of the kit?
Regards
Richard (of the old school of if it sounds good then it is good)
That is a good place to be.
The thing about the forum is that some do have problems or are underwhelmed for one reason or another. The forum helps to share experiences. Sometimes knowledge is not so easy.
There are rewards if one can get every last bit out of the kit one has.
I’ve just rerouted a DIN XLR connecting pre to power differently avoiding a loop on one channel and there is a noticeable improvement! The verdict is still out on an expensive mains block.
Phil
When the rectifier diodes inside the Naim PS boxes are turned ‘on’ at the top of the mains conduction cycle then they are effectively short-circuit connections to the mains - this happens at 100Hz (UK) for a very brief but obviously needed brief time interval, but ongoing all the time.
At those moments the connection is from the Amp to mains - to all the other Amps that are doing exactly the same thing at the same moment - and on back into the mains supply to the house, etc…
So when these boxes are all connected all voltages induced on the mains wire by the high surge currents will cause circulation currents between all the boxes, as they are all connected at the mains and all, at that moment finding an equilibrium.
Then it turns off conducting for a longer period and the pulse of current is no longer evoked but it happened and induced its own magnetic field, etc.
I’m guilty of taking this thread too far off topic by discussing the things that may influence things like why mains blocks sound different I think!
Originally I put in several radials for each box - tried that and hated it - then re-formed two into a ring, that just goes to one place at HiFi location and connected that to a bank of double-sockets.
I use three on-wall sockets for my three Power Amps (Active) and place on on wall double-socket (in between one side with the Bass Amp plugs and the other the Mid/HF Amp socket) for everything else.
Into that remaining double-wall socket I have both my mains block to feed first Pre, then 555PS(A) then at end 555PS(D) - and on the other remaining double wall socket I plug-in my Snaxo SC PS. I tried it on the block before Pre but it sounded better on the wall.
So all my stuff daisy-chains, from block toward wall-socket, Source-Pre-Snaxo-Amps in the same sequence they are connected by their signal wires.
This way any loop over the mains circuit caused by circulating current - as attemptedly described above - will stay in the small subtended loop of mains- PS for A -Naim box A - signal link - Naim box B - PS for B - and then back to the shared mains while both amps are conducting at the 100Hz rate.
If Box A has a very long bit of mains wiring of many meters before it gets to Box B because it is on its own radial circuit it will subtend a larger area - make a bigger open loop as seen from some perspective.
…but actually trying it and finding what you like is best. 
I’m not saying this will be best - just it is for me so far and some rationale behind why I did it this way.
DB.
Here is a photo that may help you see the change mentioned above. The change involved routing the Green DIN XLR (lower one for left speaker) the other side of one 500 Burndy, putting both outside in the sense I defined above. As best I can tell these hang freely. So far it passes my hearing tests. BTW I introduced this problem recently trying to get these cables to hang better.
The relevance to this thread is that if there are distortions from other sources then saying a mains block made an improvement is less important than fixing the real problem. I don’t doubt the mains block can make a difference. I think the new plug arrangement is noticeably better.
Let’s talk about loops. It seems sensible not to have them in the power cords. Knitting is very easy. It happens with our PCs quite often!
Phil
One of the most interesting improvements in the sound is the sheer power of the sound from the piano. I can turn the volume down and it still gives that without being overbearing. It has harmonic richness when the playing is softer as well.
Phil
Thanks DB as I begin to understand.
What is also interesting, but way off this thread topic, is the benefits and disadvantages of radial and ring circuits. Maybe I should start a thread on such,
Many thanks,
Richard
Indeed - I’m not sure I have much more to say on it other than I began by laying-in the mains radials on assumption I would prefer that, but found I didn’t and went for a ‘quiet ring’ dedicated just for the HiFi.
I fully respect the greater number of people that prefer otherwise but I had to report what I found when I tried it. Also I’m not sure many actually do the comparison between a HiFi dedicated ring and separate radials for each box - they sound very different.
If you go from a noisy shared mains to the dedicated radials it is so obviously cleaner that it seems a no-brainer upgrade - and it is. But I found it a bit cold and uninvolving so tried the ring option and the HiFi just seemed happier and the low-level detail was just ‘there’ and it was not as stark as it had been before.
…but mains blocks are the opposite direction from dedicated radials.
DB.
Maybe it’s simply combining the best of both worlds. I was told years ago that a single spur / radial gave a more together result than multiple spurs, and the block is simply the way to connect multiple boxes. With its ring and star earthing the G3 seems like a hydra on steroids. A lot more expensive but works well.
Thanks DB.
I may well convert my two spare radials into a single ring. This will give me 1 x ring and my existing 2 x radials with which I can experiment with various options.
Richard
That is just what I did - then you know for yourself. You may prefer different to me.
I just associate certain extreme mains feeding set-ups with a certain sound you either really like or don’t.
Since the Music Works block is in effect - if you see the inside - a tine ring mains circuit and not a star-mains which they could have easy done instead there may be different end-results they preferred there too.
DB.
Interesting DB but could you not replicate the the tiny ring main on a radial spur by completing the loop on say four sets of wall sockets? This would then be similar to how MusicWorks have wired the G3. Obviously it would not place any distance between the power amp and the more sensitive stuff stuff but it does give you another performance variation?
Apologies all for continued thread drift from me as I have playing Neil Young for the last few hours and with my NAP now on one radial and my Superline + NAC on another I think it is sounding really great with what I hear as cleaner/tighter bass, warmer/fuller sound not that it was ever bad before.
Oh and it plays even louder, Neil would be pleased!
Richard
p.s. I will still revert in a week or two to check that I have not just convinced myself that it sounds better. Then I may try converting to a ring circuit.
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It does not surprise me!
I suggest live with it for a few days at least and explore a range of different music - some mains configurations may find yo playing some music and avoiding others as you subliminally ‘know’ what will work and put it on.
Not saying it is so here, but it can happen. If you have the NAP on its own radial and the rest clumped onto another then that may be quite good, especially if the radial lengths are not very long before they make their join.
DB.
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Richard, I think plugging order and mains arrangements are inextricably linked to the benefits or otherwise of mains power blocks. So I would encourage such discussion in this thread. Far from thread drift.
As others have suggested, your mains arrangements to your hifi is possibly better to sort before a mains block, if you have that possibility.
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Good point and I will do as what very often happens to me is that I get into a groove and just dig deeper into an artist. It depends on my mood and who knows tomorrow I may get into my UK Reggae groove of the 1970/80s, or Dylan or who knows.
Richard
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It may be possible - depending on the particular physical connection architecture to achieve this.
But it will only ‘work’ if it is a dedicated ring with nothing else arbitrarily plugged-in somewhere else on that ring, so I think the isolated ‘block-ring’ allows more isolation from spurious other items in circuit and possibly allows the user to find the best arrangement.
There is also the mechanical isolation aspect. It seems that decoupled loose and lossy mechanical connections work better than something rigidly bolted to the wall as a normal socket is.
Having said that I made my own HiFi panel that stands-off from the wall and is attached firmly but not sunk-in and part of my wall. I’ve not done any further experiments on that as I had intended, as it just worked and sounded good so I was playing music and forgetting I can improve it one day - now just reminded myself!
I think the main thing is to experiment and try things and when happy leave it alone and increase the ‘music’ time and reduce the ‘HiFi tinkering’ time as interesting as the latter can be.
Also very important - if after a few days or even a couple of weeks any ‘improvement’ you thought you had made finds you not playing any music and finding other things to do but use the HiFi - then you have probably inadvertently spoiled something and the difference was not an overall up-lift - it can happen.
Then roll-back what you did and see if you are relieved it is playing music again and enjoyable.
DB.
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My wife could care less what I spend my money on 
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