Ran quite a few tests on my own, tweaking various variables. In the end I think I’ve convinced myself hardwiring just so much more reliable. Tired of messing about with all things wireless and all the various changes to parameters to get things just right.
Ok first time poster, long time lurker over here. I created this account just to answer this nagging problem that everyone including myself has experienced with the muso 2 wifi.
I think I might have found the/one of the root causes to everyones muso 2 wifi woes after extensive f-faffing around(at least this is the cause of my muso woes). when I have the time I’ll write a longer explanation (background of DFS and radar knockouts, wifi channel auto switching), heres the gist/ ramble to tide over in the meantime
the problem is caused by muso 2 not having the ability to receive wifi signals on the 5ghz band that is above channel 112(the next channel on my router is 149, so I cant test anything in between). and this problem is compounded by the default ability of most modern routers to automatically switch between channels depending on its settings. most modern routers also have 2 5ghz bands, 5ghz-1 overlaps with the operable range of muso2, but 5ghz-2 operates overlaps with operable dfs channels 100-120+ and the inoperable channel 149 upwards , with auto channel switching turned on, this causes the muso2 to work sometimes (that explains why, after a reboot of the router, it starts with its defaulted control channel which might be within the operable channel range and after awhile switches to an inoperable channel, if the router assesses the inoperable channel to have a stronger signal ) and sometimes rebooting doesnt work at all
what you should do - ensure your router doesnt have any channel switching setting turned on, refer to its manual. , or ensure its switching range settings don’t include channels above 149 e.g. smart control etc. or ensure the muso is on the 2.4ghz band only. or if u are gonna use 5ghz, only use channels below 112 .
@naim anychance for a firmware update to support channels 149 and above?
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Interesting post… although I don’t have Muso 2, I am wondering if I may have observed a similar issue with the Atom.
I have had zero success in streaming to the Atom via WiFi. It would work for a period of time, then simply stop playing. This is with the Atom only a couple of metres from a mesh wifi point in the same room (which is itself using an ethernet backbone back to the router). iphones and very old ipads could stream 24bit 192 from Qobuz without a hiccup, while netflix was being streamed.
On one occasion, while trying to troubleshoot the issue, it was apparent that the Atom had connected itself to a mesh point (very weakly) at the other end of the house.
I raised a support ticket with my mesh hardware supplier as it seemed to me that the Atom was not being steered to the best access point, as it should be. They said that although they can “suggest” that the Atom connects to a stronger mesh point, it is down to the Atom to determine whether it will or not.
In light of your observations with the Muso, I am wondering if it was being steered to the nearby access point, but was unable to support the connection (possibly as it was beyond the channel limit for the Atom).
If I ever find myself with the necessary enthusiasm and patience, I may experiment again… for the moment, it is connected via ethernet to the nearby mesh point, which I know is recommended, but there is no disguising the fact that, from my experience and MANY others on this forum, the WiFi capabilities of their devices is astonishingly poor.
(Cue the forum members to state that it will work if you buy hardware X, Y and Z, sacrifice a chicken at the alter of the WiFi gods etc…)
I have what I believe to be a pretty robust wifi network. Only the Naim behaves like a petulant child when it comes to WiFi.
Your post gave me food for thought…
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@MortalWombatUK.
On the flipside I dont have an Atom, but I think we may be on to something. no offence to NAim ,although its highly speculative but it’s reasonable to assume a company would use templated firmware across its devices for implementing common areas ( e.g. wifi controller) as much as possible across
If indeed the common wifi dropouts are caused by incompatability with the upper channels on the 5ghz-2 band, I wonder whether it’s a hardware or firmware limitation. if it’s the latter, I hope this can be flagged to a NAIM REP on this forum to fix the firmware across its devices in a fw update
If the Atom manages to connect to the Mesh some of the times , and no other device drops off the mesh point whenever the Atom is unable to connect to that Mesh point, then the cause probably lies with the Atom.
Without playing around with the channel/channel switching settings on the AP, maybe an easy fix is to get the atom to connect to a 2.4ghz wifi network and observe its stability. takes about 5 min to figure out the channel settings on most routers, it’s usually on the WIRELESS section of its configuration page
I’ll have to do some more testing, I recall that 2.4GHz was better, and I know for sure that the mesh system was adjusting channel automatically (as dictated by any other nearby wifi network interference) on both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands.
Mark
Hi All,
The channels supported is based on the country code that the current connected router is reporting, as we need to ensure we obey the RF regulations for that country. So for example on Muso gen2, the channels supported at ch100 and above are if set to USA mode is:
Channel 100 : 5.5 GHz
Channel 104 : 5.52 GHz
Channel 108 : 5.54 GHz
Channel 112 : 5.56 GHz
Channel 116 : 5.58 GHz
Channel 120 : 5.6 GHz
Channel 124 : 5.62 GHz
Channel 128 : 5.64 GHz
Channel 132 : 5.66 GHz
Channel 136 : 5.68 GHz
Naim uses bands A and B. We do not support band C which originally had heavy restrictions on usage attached to it. In the last few years in some countries these restrictions have been relaxed, but not many devices support band C.
Regarding Mesh networks, Naim 802.11ac based products currently don’t support 802.11v and 802.11k to dynamically and seamlessly roam between nodes / get the hint on best node to connect to. Virtually no embedded electronics do at the moment, for example: https://en.community.sonos.com/troubleshooting-228999/sonos-connection-to-mesh-networks-6837839. We will explore if we can improve matters, for example always connect to the same BSSID that was used at initial setup time.
Best regards
Steve Harris
Software Director
Naim Audio
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Very interesting testing as I’ve been struggling with Muso2 and QB2 cutting out despite modern modem, strong, fast Wi-Fi. I do have an incredibly thick question, however. I’m in the U.S and my Comcast Infinity router doesn’t show any of the above mentioned 5g channels. I show 36,40,48,149,153,157,161. Running a scan on the IMac shows 157 as best choice. Am I missing something? Im not all that clued you with respect to routers. Thanks
Hi @Dzayia
Assuming nothing else is already using it try using channel 36. which is in band A.
Channel 153 is in the band C range and you’ll find various equipment can’t connect on that band.
Best
Steve
Will give it a go. Thanks so much for the quick response!
Continued to cut out at new channel setting. Might have to bite the bullet and hardwire. Throwing in the towel with respect to wireless.
I’ve been struggling with all the same issues with the MuSo2 WiFi problems and unfortunately cannot realistically use an ethernet connection (other than for temporary testing). I use an Asus RT-AC68U router, which has been rock-solid for years in my relatively small apartment, and my ISP is also Comcast (USA). Therefore I only see the same channels as Dzayia (above). Following earlier suggestions of brynhe, I set my 5 Ghz channel to 48 just now (it was at 149) and will keep my fingers crossed. I also had a Mu-So 1st gen for almost 5 years before and the Wi-Fi connection (same Asus router) only dropped once or twice. Although some of us are relatively knowledgeable in these areas, it is simply not realistic to expect the consumer to fiddle with router or other esoteric settings so that a Wi-Fi streaming device that costs $1500 work properly. Surely Naim can come up with a solution via a firmware update?
Phew… it’s not just me! One thought for your set up, have you thought of using a moca adapter? The Comcast router has moca capability. Inexpensive way of hard wiring. Perhaps something to try. I’m setting up time for an electrician to hard wire. Too much time fiddling about and really shouldn’t require so much of it. So many other bits of kit rely on wireless and are plug and play versus pray!
@Dzayia @Fred2yu That’s unfortunate. For me hardwiring was not difficult to do. The wireless issues with the Muso 2 hold me back from recommending it to friends and family. I’ve had the Muso for almost a year. If knew what I know today, I would consider something else. My wife and I love the form factor and it produces wonderful sounding music. However, for the price, the WiFi should just work. Also the Naim app is; I’ll put it this way, quirky in a not so nice way.
By the way, I went the moca route. I needed 2 of them since my router does not have a moca port. The cost was $150 for the 2 adapters. The coax wiring was already in place.
Update… now hardwired and still having issues with buffering, cutting out. ISP providing fast speeds via cat5e. Tested cable, all good. Issues occur when listening to internet radio via Naim app.
At my wits end… any advice?
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Try playing the same Internet Radio streams using a PC/laptop using an application such as VLC to validate whether the issue is with the stream, ISP or your network. The Muso Qb2 is, in my experience, far more stable on a wired network.
I think I’m finally sorted. It did go the hardwire route as well as a few network related tweaks. I have to say Naim support are a pleasure to deal with. Duncan Roberts very supportive and helpful.
Spent the weekend relaxing to the wonderful uninterrupted sounds coming from the Muso and QB!
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That’s good news, what were the tweaks ?
As Lord asks, please tell!
So for my situation, the biggest improvement came from a wired solution. The difficult bit was trying to figure out why I still had buffering abs drop out issues, although certainly less frequently. Naim support supplied me with a bit of software that analyzes ones network. All checked out ok. It appears the lingering issue was related to the app any of the iPhones or iPads running on the same network as the muso. I was grabbing a much stronger wireless signal from the wireless router nearby and had that network as the default on my Apple kit. Hard wiring and ensuring same network on app and muso has me sorted. Long road to get here, requires hard wiring, but now loving the uninterrupted sounds being produced!
Cheers, i know the “go wired” is banded around here, thanks HH, but its a network streaming device and as advertised should just bldy work, like all my other old kit does.
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