My hifi journey with hyperacusis

[reptilia]

Hi again
Here’s how it’s set up today.
It matches the measurements I sent you.

I placed a panel to the left of the couch since it seemed logical with the speaker being right across from it. But I can’t really say if it’s better or worse, because my ears aren’t in great shape at the moment, so I’m limiting my listening unfortunately.

One thing we haven’t talked about yet are the two bookshelf modules.

I know it’s good not to have a room that’s too empty, but is their placement really ideal here, with a right angle next to my listening position?

Would they be better placed somewhere else?

Back to the main topic, I feel a bit stuck. I really value all your advice and I want to thank you all for it. Please don’t think I don’t care, or that I’m only interested in changing gear

But if I feel blocked by aesthetics, I prefer to be honest about it.

I’m ready to make some aesthetic compromises, similar to what I did in my previous room, where integration turned out quite well.

But even temporarily blocking a window with an acoustic panel is just not possible for me.

I need a setup that feels pleasing while I’m listening, and that reminds me as little as possible of these issues.

I have no problem experimenting with GIK panels on the walls, even if it’s just for a few weeks until I find a new apartment.

Thanks !

[Edmund-of-Essex]

Hi reptilia,

Thanks for the photos and continued engagement. I do recall a question a while back where you considered moving the sofa 50cm more away from the window?

My clear advice. YES. That way you have more chance of diminishing the first reflection point of the massive glass window.

For your information I lived in a flat which I owned for many years which was an absolute problem to get right. I was using rear ported stand-mount loudspeakers, firing across the short dimension of a rectangular box with two massive single glazed windows at each end. Here is the picture.

However, this photo was taken in the daytime and it was the evening’s mostly when I listened to music. I had very thick and heavy curtains that completely covered the windows down to the floor - of course which blocked out the light! But more importantly, absolutely damped the negative acoustic impact of the windows.

FYI, I have prepared further information for you which includes a recommendation on how to spend maybe ~€600 (euros). However please do not get too excited, this €600 will not fix your current problem, nor buy you any kit, be that CD players, amplifiers, loudspeakers or even acoustic panels.

Simply consider it as an investment in your acoustic future.

Stay tuned, posting coming soon………

[Edmund-of-Essex]

Hi reptilia,

I appreciate that you want to fix your problem right now and decide on the loudspeaker stands in less than two weeks!

However, having given the various problems you have described some consideration from a distance here in the south of the UK, I have thought of 3 (three) specific projects for you to consider for yourself.

Each mini project will need some time commitment from you, and recognising you have a technical job role, may not be appealing for whatever free time you have!

1. First (background awareness and self-education on room acoustics and acoustic treatment):

Watch explanation videos about room treatments and the various aspects to consider. Here are just two sources to consider:
Many videos available via the GIK Acoustics website.
‘Johnny Darko’ getting help from Vicoustics with his room. Several videos available regarding this.

Look at what HiFi manufacturers do to help themselves. Here are just three examples.
Cables: Look at ‘Transparent Cable’ USA and see what listening room they set up for their evaluating cables.
Loudspeakers: Look at ‘Magico’ and see what they did when refurbishing their listening room in 2022.
HiFi: Look at ‘Naim’ and see how they have carefully and moderately treated the demo room.

Put some fun into your searching…
More amusing and sometimes quite disrespectful but nonetheless still informative:
‘Dennis Foley of Acoustic Fields’ - watch his many YouTube videos and commentary on ‘other peoples’ rooms - yes really!

Go a bit more serious and read…
The ‘High End’ way of doing it (c.f. room acoustic treatment The ‘Italian’ way) - look up the white papers on DaaD technology and others on Acustica Applicata website (check the ‘Insights’ tab).

2. Second: Pay for some informative (and maybe educational) experience of Professional Music/Audio.

Most of my HiFi room acoustics understanding has come for teaching myself (see Project 1 above) and also by doing it myself (step by step purchasing of various acoustic treatments over five years) supported by and interacting with GIK Acoustics.

However in June last year I had a need to get to the bottom of a problem with an expensive piece of HiFi kit that I owned.

Part of the solution was to contact GIK Acoustics, who give referrals to technical acousticians to come and measure (potential) customers room.

This cost me about 600 euros for one whole day of technical assistance and the technician used Room Equalisation Wizard (REW).

After watching him for a whole day, slowly, bit by bit, I was able to pick up and delve deeper into undertaking real acoustic measurements.

To be clear - I don’t think this is appropriate for your situation (and in any case you said you don’t want to do measurements - just ‘ears’).

A better idea might be to make a gift to yourself where you can experience a music production acoustic environment.

Not a live room - I mean the mastering desk and room for post production work etc.

The idea of this suggestion is that if you heard a professional level of acoustics, it might give you a better idea of how you want to experience sound in the future and give you some understanding and agency about how to address rooms that you might rent to live in.

PS: Not everybody likes these environments - the reverberation times are set very low.

In the UK one can buy an experience ‘music production environment’ for about 600 euros which lasts one day. Use search terms like “music production experience days”.

Perhaps there are similar possibilities where you are in France?

If not, I would email GIK Acoustics, explain what is happening with you (c.f. hyperacusis) and see if they could reach out to their customer network and find someone who would host you for a short time (1hr, or perhaps even longer) in their treated production facility.

If that approach is successful, you night even get to hear different mixing levels and reverberation time for your favourite test track(s).

The benefit for the (hosting) professional is that they may really appreciate a conversation with a passionate music enjoying customer with a specific medical situation regarding hearing loss?
In any case it is likely you will have to pay for their expert time.

3. Third: Start to use some simple online measurement tools yourself right now.

Yes, right now…See next posting

[Edmund-of-Essex]

Hi reptilia,

3. Thirdly
   I understand the you are searching for new rental accommodation?

There is a very simple online tool that I have used for nearly 5 years.

It is called AMROC room mode calculator.

The website that hosts it has lots of great information on room acoustics and also background information on room acoustics standards and also the science of fluid dynamics (and simulation).

I consider it a great resource.

The free tool enables one to enter basic rectangular volumes (rooms) and get visualisations of the room acoustic resonances.

Last night I also used its more complex room shape extensions to cross check the Linn Space Optimisation software prediction for your current living space.

The mini project you could consider (it really only is a suggestion) is as follows:-
For any new rental opportunities that come up, check where the ‘potential’ room sits in the ‘Bolt-area’ section on the right hand side of the calculation page of AMROC Room Mode Calculator and proceed in full knowledge of how ‘bad’ or ‘good’ this room might be.

ATB

E of E

[reptilia]

Thank you, Edmund, for all your advice and the helpful ideas.

I’ll need to sleep on it and see how I can put some of these things into practice, depending on the state of my ear and also on my mood at the time. But it’s really interesting.

If you’re interested, I can post some photos of my friend’s setup (the one I mentioned at the beginning of this thread), just to give you an idea of the room.

Back then, there was also a rug under the coffee table.

[reptilia]

Hello everyone,

A few updates.

I’ve spent a few weeks without the Vienna Acoustics since I no longer have the stands.
I also treated my rear wall with some absorbing panels, which definitely helped.

For the past two weeks, I’ve been testing the small PMC Twenty5 23i floorstanders.

I was afraid they’d sound too bright, but to be honest, I’ve been pleasantly surprised.
They actually suit my room quite well, both acoustically and aesthetically.

However, they’re very transparent and quite unforgiving.

It’s really the whole upstream chain (source/DAC/amplifier/cabling) that determines the tonal balance and overall character.

And I’ve learned quite a few things from this experience.

I’ve tried different cables, amps, and streamers (both at home and in showrooms).

Long story short: as I already mentioned in previous posts, I think my Pass (or more broadly, my whole system) is too high-end for me.

By trying different amplifiers/sources, I finally understood what was bothering me.

The higher you go in the range, the more you get a deep, wide, and precise soundstage, greater transparency, a stronger sense of immersion, and clearly layered instruments.

Depending on the electronics, some of these aspects are more or less emphasized.

Sonically, this results in too much richness — simply too much information — which, for my hyperacusis, causes discomfort and listening fatigue.

And it’s not a matter of “smoothness.” Of course, if the timbre is harsh, that only makes things worse, but that’s not the core issue.

This explains why, over the years, I’ve tried around ten DACs and never found one that truly felt comfortable to listen to, even though they all sounded great!

And many of those DACs were known for being smooth and easy to listen to.

Looking back, I realize that when you feed the Pass a high-quality source, it performs at its best (like any other high-end amp).

You get all the qualities I mentioned earlier.

I also listened to a Luxman L-507z. Same story, but even more pronounced, a lot richness et wide scene.

Over the years, I even ended up using cables that compressed the sound just to make the presentation less expansive.

But that’s just patchwork, not a real solution.

So I’m now seriously considering a (major) downgrade.

Finding a good-quality system that’s smoother, but with a more restrained, “simpler” presentation.

I don’t think keeping the PMCs would be a safe bet in that regards.

Have a good evening, everyone.

Feel free to share any suggestions. I’m open to rethinking everything.
Thanks

[Edmund-of-Essex]

Hi Reptilia,

Great to hear from you again! FYI, I had even saved one of the forum email notifications to me so I could ask how you were getting on at some point in the future .

With your update, it seems you have achieved some clear direction in music replay for yourself - by downgrading?

I have nothing more to add beyond what I previously posted ( acoustic treatments etc.).

I really do recommend trying out (somehow) listening in a very highly treated acoustic space as that will limit by several dB the peak sound pressure levels your ears will experience. That was the suggestion I made here:

My hifi journey with hyperacusis - #143 by Edmund-of-Essex

It might add to your knowledge and experience in addition to what you have discovered/clarified since your prior postings a month ago.

Best regards,

E of E

[reptilia]

Hi Edmund,

Appreciate your message.

Yes, downgrading sounds like the way to go …

But now comes a new challenge:

Finding a more “modest” system — one that still offers plenty of finesse, with no harshness or brightness, but with a more laid-back presentation, even if it means giving up some of that richness.

Ideally, I’d like an all-in-one solution — streamer, DAC, and amp in a single unit — but I’m afraid that might be hard to find. I had thought about the Naim Uniti Nova, but I’ve been told it might sound a bit too lively for my taste.

I believe such a balance does exist…

[Adam1]

Hi Reptilia,

I’ve just scrolled and read your thread, fingers crossed you can find some solutions that bring you some improvements.

I’ve quite a few systems in both our house and cabin, and I’m a sucker for an amp, so consequently I have a few.

One of them that might be interesting to you is perhaps not the most obvious one. I have a Musical Fidelity A1, which as the name indicates is highly class A.

However I’ll put that one to the side, the amp that may appeal is the Technics SUG700M2, which is pure digital. Technics go to great lengths to explain that doesn’t make it class D or G.

There’s plenty of reviews and information on it online but it is to me a rare component that offers no glare but also has a lovely transparent soundstage.

It also has a tech on it (lapc) that adjusts for the impedance of the speakers, again I’ll just speak from personal experience that it does seem to enable it to really control what’s on the end of them.

Lastly it does have tone controls within the all digital domain, I haven’t used this at all, but just wanted to mention them.

It’s a very smooth, liquid customer but one that loves a rhythm and has a real gift with voices. It has a big brother, the Su1000, which again has received some stunning reviews and showcased some of the tech that trickled down to its cheaper sibling.

Might be worth checking out if you can get to hear either one anywhere near you and see if they offer any benefits and relief.

[opus]

@reptilia Ive been thinking, I think you’re just sitting too close. I’m wondering if you could try something as an experiment. Try putting your speakers on the short wall in front of the glass doors. I’ll bet being say 3.75 to 4 meters away will let the sound be more cohesive and less bright

[reptilia]

Hi @Adam1 and thanks for your suggestion, I will dive into this.

Hi @opus

Unfortunately, I can’t experiment with the placement you’re suggesting.

Of course, listening from a greater distance would have been preferable, but unfortunately, that’s not an option for me.

I used to have a much larger room, yet I still ended up facing the same issues in the end.

And I’ve noticed exactly the same thing these past few days when listening in an auditorium with excellent acoustics.

The problem isn’t brightness. The electronics and cables I use are chosen specifically to avoid that.

The issue is that I experience discomfort as soon as my system goes up in performance or refinement.

It may sound contradictory, but that’s exactly what happens, and as you’ve probably understood, it’s entirely related to my hyperacusis.

Whenever there’s too much richness, well-separated layers, and a deep, wide soundstage, it causes listening fatigue.

And when there’s a lot of spatialisation, it actually bothers me quite a bit. Even though, objectively, it’s absolutely beautiful.

And as I mentioned before, it’s not really about rhythm or punch (although depending on the source that can contribute), but rather about there being too much information.

And that’s precisely what my ears can’t handle.

I’ve been using all sorts of tricks to try to counter this, which is why I now need to find something less rich and less transparent.

[reptilia]

In the past, I had a Leben CS300, which actually matched quite well with the kind of sound I’m looking for, very refined, yet somewhat contained (not sure that’s the right word, but I think you get the idea).

I paired it with a Hegel HD30 as DAC, and that combination worked really well.

Later, I tried using another Hegel HD30 with my Pass, but in that setup it had far too much punch, which I couldn’t handle, even though the pairing itself sounded excellent, it just wasn’t in line with what my ears can tolerate.

If anything, that probably helps illustrate my situation and what I’m struggling with sonically.

[opus]

I wonder if it makes sense to go back to a Leban amp? Or some other tube amp? Maybe a Leban with something like Warfdale speakers or Harbeth. Cables known to be not bright like Cardas. And a Dac/ streamer that’s not overly detailed. I also think you should get some type of AC power conditioning. That could also help smooth things out. I also think the Pass amp is part of your problem.

[Edmund-of-Essex]

Hi reptilia,

I can see other suggestions being made on the forum.

My input here will be somewhat radical………

If you want to go to ‘one box’ or ‘one box’ plus loudspeakers, brands and equipment that I have heard very recently are:

‘One box’ = Ruark 410 Integrated Music System.

‘One box’ plus speakers = Ruark 610 Music Console with Neat Petite Classic loudspeakers (with ribbon tweeters) using Tellurium Q (Blue II) LS cables.

‘One box’ plus speakers = Naim a CI-102 with Neat Petite Classic loudspeakers (with ribbon tweeters) using Tellurium Q (Blue II) LS cables.

I did a full set of experiments on the NAIM CI-102 for myself. There is a simple link here (Review of Naim CI-102) that lets you explore what I was doing with the NAIM CI-102. The signal processing features of the NAIM CI-102 may help you control the sound presentation to your liking - but you will need to dive deep into understanding how to do that.

However, instead, it might be worth waiting a short while (weeks/months?) as Christmas is coming and manufacturers are now in the period where new products are being launched. Focal/Naim may ‘improve’ the Atom or Nova ranges of ‘one box’ solutions, or (more likely?) ‘connected’ active loudspeaker ranges, and given that you are in France, it might be worth taking a look at what is on offer?

[reptilia]

I had the Leben paired with Harbeth P3ESR and a REL sub, very well integrated and tuned so that it didn’t “stand out” at all.

It worked quite well, but the Leben still sounded a bit on the bright/lively side for me (never harsh, of course).

As for the streamer, my Bel Canto RefStream (1st gen) seems hard to beat.

It has a real refinement and smoothness that I’ve never found in any other streamer.

It actually received a lot of critical acclaim when it was released.

Its only downside is that it only supports UPnP.

I’m interested when you say the Pass is part of the problem. Why do you think that?

[reptilia]

Thanks.

The first decision I need to make is whether or not to buy the PMC twenty5 23i.

I’ll have to return them to my dealer soon, and it feels risky to take the plunge without really knowing what I’m getting. Plus, they’re not that easy to resell. There are quite a few on the used market and cheaper than in-store.

Tomorrow I’m bringing my Pass and my Vienna speakers to the showroom.

I’ll compare them with the Luxman L-505Z. That was planned a couple of days before I even started considering the idea of a downgrade.
So we will see, but I’m not expecting anything from this.

[opus]

The Pass is the opposite of what you’re trying to achieve IMHO

[registlse]

I suffer from ringing in my left ear if I listen too loudly (> at 80db) and light hearing especially with music that is too demonstrative, I am a Qobuz subscriber and I find that the sound (most of the time) is too forward, lacks depth, we know that recordings smooth the dynamics which has this effect… I have recently switched to vinyl, I find the sound more natural, more dynamic, there is more air and depth, it’s less demonstrative, less forward while being of high quality (except some recent vinyls…) maybe to try!

[frenchrooster]

Hearing aids? I had tinnitus and hearing sometimes the music edgy. Not now, quite no tinnitus, rarely, and the sound is more natural.

[reptilia]

Hello

I tried to get into vinyl about three years ago, but the turntable had been poorly set up by the technician, and my phono preamp was really bad.

Then the price of records started putting me off, so I gave up. It was all just getting a bit too much hassle for me.