@NigelB Should have said the other reason for me jumping to a 552 would be to release my Supercap for Superline duties. Maybe at some point!
Lindsay, that would make a lot of sense. I guess too, knowing what I know now, I would have skipped over the 252 and jumped straight from my 282 to a 552. But I was never sure I could ever afford the 552, which is why I did go to a 252.
You could take that argument to the extreme and live with an Atom until you could afford a full 500 system, but you would be denying yourself some wonderful music-making from the Classic range in the many intervening years it would take to get to the end-game system - that is for us folk who live in the real world with other pressures on the family finances.
This is all true Nigel. I should stick with the Qb until I can afford a Vertere Reference Groove and Statement:grinning:
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I thought the 252/250.2 I had were a pretty ideal match. The DR wasnāt out at that time but I expect that would be even better.
The choice of power amp is heavily speaker dependent IMO. Some speakers are simply easier to drive and place less demand on the power amp.
The choice of pre-amp OTOH is more one of preference - get the best sounding (to you) one you can afford!
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I skipped the 252 though it was my long term plan to finish on one. Freeing up the supercap for the superline was a very good move and I regret not getting the right Burndy earlier and leaving the hicap on the 282.
Once the 552 was in place the 250-2 was performing beyond expectations and even with NBLs I found it hard to imaging what a 500 would do that mattered, however I found I was checking dealer web sites fairly often for a used one I could afford, new being beyond reach at the time. It wasnāt long before I had one on my Fraim and nearly a hernia to go with it from posting it into the gap rather than rebuilding the Fraim around it. The 500 was something of a disappointment until I raised its ps to get the Burndys off the carpet and raised the 552 higher than the 500ps, that last finally brought the life back and I could appreciate the benefits. You do want a 500 but the 250 is easier to accommodate.
My room is 4.1m by 3.8m(on average), does that count as bijou?
Your room is far from bijou, my listening room being rather smaller.
The plan is to skip the 300DR and go for a pre-loved 500DR but I would also need a change of speaker too at that time. This is out of reach at the moment and possibly OTT for my small listening room.
In the meantime I am thoroughly enjoying what I have and not sure it would bother me too much if the āend gameā doesnāt happen.
Looks like the 250 fits a wide variety of NACs and speaker setups and after 44 years you can see why its lasted so long.
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maybe. For you.
But having heard some of the finest sources out there LP12, CD555, blu2/Dave, Linn Klimax streamersā¦, source first for me
Preamp is not part of the source in my world
I doesnāt emphasise them either, my Ā£100 in 1981 NAD tuner never sounded so good and a humble Rega DAC-r sounded rather engaging, something a 2qute didnāt manage.
The sources I was talking about with the 552 was NDS and ND555 which, although not perfect, donāt have significant deficiencies. The addition of a 552 is clear to hear when used with these sources, significantly ahead of the 252 in SQ.
And yes, I do feel the source and the pre amp have to work in close harmony to achieve these heights.
Having said all of that, like you, I am of the āsource firstā persuasion, but unlike you I am of the āpre-amp secondā persuasion, all within the parameters of a ābalancedā system. And I consider my Monkfish as balanced.
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Iāve heard the 250.2 with 282, 252 and 552. Iāve heard the 250DR with 282 and 552DR. I have concluded that the problem is the power amp.
I donāt deny my system would be significantly enhanced with a 300DR or a 500DR and I of course have heard the 552 with both these power amps at dealers and shows, just not in my system at home.
All I āknowā is that with my 250DR with my speakers in my small listening room, I heard significant gains each time I moved through 282, 252 and 552. The performance of a power amp, IMHO, is also significantly affected by the speakers they are used with and the listening room.
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Hope Iām not hijacking but I am seeking related advice. I currently have NDS/555PS DR fed by Melco N1ZH. SL interconnect and speaker cables and PMC Fact 8. The amp is an SN2 DR with Hicap DR and I have been told and accept the SN2 is probably a big bottleneck in this system.
Iām considering going pre power with power being the 250DR. This forces at least another shelf in my Fraim set so the cost of that and 252/super cap DR, is really too expensive.
Iām thinking instead keeping my hicap DR and going 282 with 250 DR. With my Fact 8 is this going to be a big improvement or am I really just tweaking?
Will the amp still be a major bottleneck?
Iām after balanced benefits and concerned that if I tried to throw money with a 252/super cap DR then Iād find the Fact 8 was limiting!
Never ending spiral.
Money is an issue so advice appreciated. I will demo but donāt want to waste my time or my dealers.
I seem to remember you have B&W and possibly Spendors before that. It could be a marching issue rather than the 250-2 in isolation. I had no issues with it on Thiel CS1.6 and NBLs.
i testify best results in earlier Naim to be achieved through mono 135ās/52/SC.
Surely the best I heard in a 250.2 based system was the 252/sc/cds3/555 pre DR. A heck of a system!
As much as I love the 52, later 252 , and rate it well ahead of the 282 as for musical satisfaction, when implemented in the chain 282 works very well especially when budget is an issue and money being save and spent in better upstream sources would prove a sounder improvement
All this In a perfect world ,where the 250 would be just enough, which is not really the rule,unfortunately.
202 hicap2 250dr may not be so great as you say but ā¦have you tried a 202 hicap DRād ?
I did and no way can a 272 approach it as a pre ,at least
There are good reports of the simple Nac 72 + Hicap DR + Nap 250 DR too.
This is a valid observation and may be pertinent. Although I have heard the 250 through a number of speakers in a few listening rooms. (Ruark, Spendor, Naim, Rega, Neat, B&W to probably name most of them IIRC). Iāve always thought it a bit mechanical in itās presentation. With an artificial loudness, like that artificial boost facility you get to bass and treble on some amps. If the presentation of the 250 was a photograph the colours would be slightly over saturated, the focus would be ever so slightly out, and the very top and bottom of the subject would be over cropped. This view puts me in an heretical minority. I know how loved the 250 is and I can easily see why. When the time came to hand over my money I was tempted to take it and acclimatise myself to how āproper HiFiā should sound. But I didnāt.
The penultimate time I heard a 250DR it was at the dealer behind S400. The very pair which had been collected from my house the day before, which I could not make sound right in my lounge. I had them for a month. They just wouldnāt nap in. The sound this combination made at the dealer with a 282 and NDX/555PS was utterly convincing. Although too loud for my comfort - which might have contributed to how good they sounded. Later on I had that very 250 on loan at home while my 500 was away for the DR mod. Itās hard to ignore bias and pre conceptions. I like to think I did my best but after about two weeks I realised I wasnāt listening any more. Music had become uninteresting. I always seemed to have something else which I needed to be doing when I would normally be sitting, listening and relaxing. Which brings me back to your point about my view of the 250 being coloured by my own situation.
No, I have not tried a NAC202 with a Hicap DR. I have however tried a NAC202 with a Hicap as well as with a Supercap, both with a NAP250, and while in isolation itās fine, a NAC282/NAP200 for similar money is so much more engaging. In some ways I even preferred a fully loaded NAC202 with the NAP200 compared to the same with a NAP250. Only once you get to a NAC282 does the NAP250 start to show up the NAP200.