The obvious answer to that is what a load of bollocks
… but I’m all ears as you have a go at explaining that premise
… what do you mean by “stable”, if its the streamer/preamp concept, the answer to that is that Linn seen to be doing extremely well on that very same concept.
After that I really don’t know what you mean. Last time I was in a conversation on the subject the argument was its “only” a 2 series so by inference it’s unworthy. Again a load of rubbish.
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Well, I doubt anything is actually wrong with it. I think it’s more of a case that it is so well regarded that people looking at buying new want an update to the new streamer technology, which would make it even better. Styled like an NDX2 with a volume knob would be pretty spanky.
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I am working on a more wordy response to qualify my earlier comment, but in the meantime, let me just agree with @Mike_S
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Thank you! Can we get the next clue next week?
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Before responding to your other argument, the “only 2 series” was not from me, you must have mistaken me with someone else…
Ok. Inherently unstable means: the Analogue Preamp portion is very stable. Not a lot of people seems to be looking for updates on 202/282/252.
Dac, it is a maybe, a lot of companies seems to be doing it for their integrated, mostly Dac Preamp products out there seems to be emphasis on the Dac part more then the preamp part. The 272 on the other hand, seems to be made a analogue preamp more than Dac. The implementing a Dac into Analogue components part, Naim seems to have set a precedent in Supernait 1 to 2.
The streamer part, it is a very very rapidly moving area. Even streaming companies may come and go. Some services may need to be updated to work. It is inherently an ever moving piece which Naim is not going to give continuous support (you can see the Uniti/272/NDX) they will not update it to Qobuz and Roon. And who knows in 2021 there is a Roon 3 Woon, Zebuz, Sildo or whatever new things pop up on internet.
The 272 streamer or even the 272 replacement streamer will not likely to support them.
So a long lasting analogue preamp, couple with a ever evolving streamer, is inherently less stable in demand.
It.is.simple.as that. Not that there is anything wrong with 272, but if I want to get roon to work, 272 will simply never be able to do it.
As for Linn, they seems to offer updates, for a cost yes, but they do update their platform apparently…
I was not meaning conversing with you.
By “in a conversation” I meant actually talking to someone.
OK, its simply that your description of “inherently unstable” is the problem & misapplied. In my work-life such a description is a show stopper & if such a product was diagnosed as such it would not be in the marketplace
By reading your post explaining what you mean I would just say the technology is evolving
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As I said in another thread. 272 is like the marriage of Aragorn and Arwen in Lord of the Rings. However strong Aragorn was in his prime, Arwen the evening star is doomed to be widowed for a long time…
In my system, Arwen has re-married to Qutest and Aragorn is just lying there in the dreamland 99% of the time …
@anon4489532. Exactly as you said. The emergence of a new model doesn’t make everything that went before redundant.
Regards,
Lindsay
What you are arguing is not lack of stability, but of flexibility or adaptability.
And the logical extension to that might be three separate components: 1) The renderer, with associated control software, which is where capability and updatability lie for things like Roon, alternative online streaming suppliers and formats, etc.
2) The DAC.
3) The preamp
In the Naim tradition they could all have optional ourboard power supplies.
That also allows for easy addition of another component between 1 & 2 if desired: DSP, or that could be an option built into 1).
And the DAC could be fitted with a volume control and suitable output buffering and source capability to drive a power amp directly, making the preamp 3) only necessary if you also have analogue sources.
A 272, and I would guess any successor, deliberately combines the main functions of these into a single box for convenience. I think it is generally accepted that squeezing everything into a single box is likely to be a compromise, though most users seem to think it is very well done and not as compromising as might be expected. A 372 or whatever would likely still be a compromise and limited in various ways, and would seem unlikely ever to have the flexibility of separate components, therefore if frequent upgradeability in the areas you described are key requirements for someone, maybe the one box model is simply not the best answer for them, it presumably being aimed primarily at people wanting things like small box count, simple plug ‘n’ play.
How right that is! So often people suggest that their X will sound broken because a new better model has been released. Same with buying a car or a vacuum cleaner (but not usually in terms of their sound!) That is simply rubbish! Of course if that happens immediately after one has bought, if the new model is better for the same or similar cost one will feel disappointed not to have known and waited for it, but the existing one is unaffected, and is still the best choice as made at the point of decision.
Instability in demand of 272 and instability in system. For example, if people have a 202/200, 282/300, 252/300 etc, they are more likely happily discussing what streamer/dac to get, aka the Hugo/Dave WTC threads here. Very seldom will they ask if there will be a 202/282 update. If they are not happy or.have spare cash, they just trade in to the next level.
For people with 272, it is not.the case. It seems every other week someone asks if there is any updates. Evidently there is less stability in users state of mind. I guess this is to the advantage of Naim though. Like Unitis, a owner of 272 need a almost complete overhaul to.upgrade which generates sales (if the demand captured by Naim itself)
Because they are not streamers, therefore do not have a digital side that was designed more than a decade ago which limits functionality, reliability and sound quality in some uses.
I think this is a misapplied language. I see what you’re getting at (not in complete agreement) but instability is not the right word.
It is not engineering type of instability. It is in the hifi system selection…
As I suggested, I think you mean lack of flexibility or upgradeability, rather than instability which suggests that the it keeps becoming faulty in sone way, fir example distorting the music or failing to play.
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I think.maybe you are right but its definitely not just about “upgradibilty” or “flexibility”.
For example, someone with a Nait 5i with a CD 5i can be happy as clam and never ask the question “if a Nait 5i update is around the corner” or “when will a CD5i-4 come out?”. They are equally not upgradeable nor adaptable, yet noone ask them like they ask about 272, every other week.
“instability” is in the mind of a lot of the owners…
Hardly surprising considering every other streamer Naim make has been superseded by a new model on the updated streaming platform. One would assume that it’s only a matter of time before the current 272 is either replaced or just discontinued.
Does it really matter? People buy what they want. There is no more instability in the minds of 272 owners than those who wonder about AirPlay 2, Roon, Qobuz, new leads, mains, fuses, stands or whatever. To suggest that the 272 or its owners are more unstable than others is both silly and pointless.
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