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The 500 is anything but a failure. If you look inside, it is a wonderful and clever piece of design and engineering excellence. It’s just that the output stage design and regulation mean that, by design, it cannot drive complex, difficult loads. Match it to the right speakers and it will be thrilling and wonderful. Fail to do this and, by design, it will disappoint.
So you are suggesting that the 500 does not work with 707’s?
Surely the Naim dealer would have advised this?
Yes, but the 707 does not appear to be such a complex, difficult load. So IF it failed to drive that, in clear contradiction to the statement by Naim, then it WOULD be a failure.
Maybe more interestingly for @Markt8252961, the need to turn the volume pot higher with the 500 seems odd to me. The published specs state a gain of +29 dB for the 300DR and +30 dB for the 500 DR, so why would one need to turn it up so much more?
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That seems to be the more relevant question, We seem to be focusing on the small variables while missing the elephant in the room.
Why is the volume pot turned up so much compared to the 300? Is that normal?
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The obvious thing to do is find some means of comparing directly with another 500 (non-D are), either at the dealer or at home, to see if there is an obvious difference. That will tell you immediately if yours is the problem, or if it is that for some reason it’s just not doing it for you.
From another angle have you heard it elsewhere sounding good? If so, could it be that your room is the limiting factor? Rooms can muddle the sound, a lot.
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Hi, no, as things are not as black and white as ‘does and doesn’t work’. Read what I wrote earlier. Depending on the type of music preferred, the room and the listeners ears, plus the volume enjoyed, the 500 may be a wonderful match to these speakers. However, looking at the published independently measure specs of these speakers, you run the risk of clipping with the 500 if you push the dynamic range of the music and the volume.
Yes, I take all that you say on board, but here we are talking of the OP making a direct comparison by replacing just one component in an otherwise ‘locked’ system and environment. Changing from a lesser amp to a higher amp has caused a downgrade in sound quality. If the 500 needs some special treatment to enable it to work I absolutely expect the dealer to warn of this before the demo or potential sale. I haven’t read of anywhere, where Naim have said that you will need to turn the volume pot up, or you will need to replace your cables, etc when you change to a 500.
Yes, but Naim writes “no discernable impact on performance” for prolonged loads of 2 ohms.
And that may be if the 707 is in fact more difficult than “dipping under 3”, but the OP is apparently not using it. The 707 has a published sensitivity of 89dB and he turned the dial to 9 with the 300 DR. This is not overly loud at all, my speakers have the same sensitivity, and I have a 300 DR. Now he has to turn it to 10 for the same perceived volume, which seems odd, but would still not be overly loud
Hi, we don’t know what the OP is listening to and at what volume. Looking at the specs of the two amps (independent test results from stereophile as Naim don’t publish comprehensive results), in certain circumstances having to increase the volume pot on the pre with the 500 is entirely understandable.
We seem to know the volume:
I put my money a nap500 all day long. Something is not right. it may needs to be run? Give it a few months. nap500 is a beautiful thing, if 135 amps could do lt then the 500 will np.
Something is clearly not right if you need to dial the volume to 10 o’Clock with the 500 and not the 300 or 250.
I listened at 9 O’clock which was a sensible volume with the 300DR and 500DR partnered with the 707’s. My room is 5 x 6.5 meters.
Off course I would push this up to 10 o’clock or higher for more serious listening but both amp volume control was similar.
My views/thoughts:
1- a NAP500 is closer in presentation to a 250, having a bit more verve than a 300 to my ears - even in non-DR form.
2- it should power 707s without any issue at all. A 500 provides more ‘grip’ over the speakers hence, in part, why it is the better amp (well, to most of us here it seems).
3- did you see/have you got the service paperwork for the 500?
Whilst not strictly on timetable, at say 10Y’s old, I would expect a full servicing of the head unit and the PS - in many respects the latter is the primary factor.
4- What plug-in order as regards your dedicated mains are you running. Try plugging the 500 in to the first socket i.e. where it draws current ahead of other kit.
5- If you are playing via a low-output vinyl source, have you ensured all ahead of the 500 is OK. Running at 10am on a 252 may not be an issue in such circumstances - albeit I note your cited comparables.
The 500 should present a far better, much ‘faster’ & detailed musical picture (e.g. better bass control) than a 250DR and a 300DR - albeit the gap re the latter may not be material given the benefits of DR.
6- If you haven’t got the 500 installed towards optimally e.g. decent mains supply, properly hanging burndies with signal cables also hanging freely, then its performance can be heavily compromised - the same goes for a 300.
The warm-up for power amps is generally only a few days IME (the pre-amps can take a couple of months or more), so if you’re not happy having checked out the whole system from end to end, then it’s a case of back to the dealer and ask to dem against their 500/300DR.
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I use 135s to drive my kudos Titan T88s in a very large room.
The dial on my 52 rarely goes past 8:30
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Hi
Thank you all for the responses.
I have powerlines with the 552 & 500.
I have a dedicated mains.
Not sure I would need a mains conditioner plus I thought Naims philosophy was against conditioners or the like.
I have naca5 speaker cables.
I have dressed the burndy’s as best as possible. They’re off the floor.
On one side of my bloc rack I have at the top is 552, 150mm gap then the 500 head unit, directly below that I have 500 ps then directly below that the 552 ps.
they’re on glass.
I tried to isolate the head unit & the 552 head with a separate glass shelf with sorbothane, like a sandwich glass sorbothane & glass. I’ve also tried small spike & cups but the sorbothane I thought worked best.
Thanks
Lol.
Might be time for separate brain and brawn racks, and maybe Fraim. I couldn’t listen to mine at 10 o’clock!
Phil
Being an ex techie I’d go for the Naim equivalent of turn it off and turn it on again.
Take it down, check all connections and cables. Put it back together again.
If no change call supplying dealer.
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I don’t know undercwhat circumstances uou’re thinking. The 500 actually has 1dB more gain than the other NACs 30 vs 29) so should be slightly louder by about nudge or so, so it is odd that it is the other way round.