Naim and wattage

That’s in comparison to SHL5 or 40.1 a rather small speaker so I understand we might have very different results :slight_smile:

Size has nothing to do with it, rather speaker sensitivity, how easy a load it is for the amp, listening distance, room characteristics, and of course personal taste. And source output level if different sources.

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It is completely different indeed. I always thought that the cm1’s and the SN1 was a good pairing. The SN1 is quite a raw amp and cm1s are not capable of showing many details, but I truly enjoyed listening to bigger symphonies on them since the setup was capable of showing the dynamic differences so well.

Ultimately I moved away from it since my taste evolved a bit.

So you mean there is no difference in controlling a 12” driver compared to a 4” even if they have same sensitivity? Not my experience.

Depends on the 12 inch driver itself.
Something like those full range Tannoy 12s with a sympathetic cabinet will be more easier than a 4 inch with massive magnets, super stiff cone in a non ported slim cabinet.

In my experience, the problem here is the complexity of human hearing combined with the complexity of optimising the performance of power amps; if everyone interpreted sound in the same way it would make the amp designer’s job a lot easier.

Depending on the person listening and details of the amp topology, the order of importance of these can vary (so they are stated in no particular order):
1 Frequency response lower limit (-1dB @ 25Hz or down to 10Hz)
2 Frequency response upper limit (-1dB @ 25kHz or up to 50kHz)
3 Open loop gain & negative feedback ratio
4 Open loop frequency response & negative feedback loop frequency response
5 Open loop slew rate (at or above that needed for sine wave at frequency response upper limit)
6 Closed loop amp slew rate (at or above that needed for sine wave at frequency response upper limit)
7 Power supply line regulation at 1kHz
8 Power supply line regulation at Amp slew rate (this maybe a triangle wave output)
9 PSRR
10 Internal gain stage slew rate (protection from driver lockup)
11 Internal gain stage PSRR (protection from driver lockup)
12 Characteristics of components used (particularly capacitors)

I’m sure there are others I’ve missed while just typing this out from memory of my last design project

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Naomi Watts doesn’t have any negative feedback. As far as I’m concerned.

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I don’t think she’s amplified though, so she doesn’t need it. :rofl:

I see people are falling into the same old trap of conflating sensitivity with efficiency and drivability.

Efficiency is rarely published. It’s measured in percent and gengerally speakers don’t get better that about 3%.

Sensitivity is just a measure of 1w at one specific frequency at 1m. It doesn’t take into account dead zones a speaker might have at 1m in front of the drivers or different responses at the wider frequency spectrum.

There are 84db speakers out there that are easy to drive and work great with 10w amps and go loud easily. There are 95db speakers that are a total bitch to drive.

impedence curves and phase angles are a much better indication of drivability.

On a flat output, Naim’s “watts” (starting to hate that word) are no different from another amp’s watts. Their ability to deal with real world complex fluctuating loads is what gives people the impression their output is different. The large transformer and caps help here and regulation even further. It would be more accurate to simply say they are more capable with deviating loads.

It’s a shame that Naim can’t give the same answer to “how many watts” that Rolls Royce gave to the answer “how many horsepower”. Adequate.

I thought the question asked was “What is the power output of the engine?” and the answer given was

“Sufficient.”

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You’re probably right.

Back in the old days, Julian Vereker was sometimes asked by journalists what the power output of the original Nait was, his answer was “Enough”.

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That’s just marketing :blush:

Julian and Ivor were both good at the cult of personality, but to be fair to them they also designed some superb products.

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So SN3 is in the house and so is the SN2. Together with Harbeth SHL5 Plus they both create a beautiful tone and I truly enjoy listening to music. But, on some records that is mixed on the lower side of output I feel the SNs need to work quite a bit and I need to push them to 10 maybe 11 and the feeling is they are out of power and cannot push the Harbeth anymore. Where do I go in the Naim range to get rid of that feeling? I want Naim and I need headroom and power. I do not want to get a higher cost Naim amp and get a side way move because sound quality is not my issue. Power and headroom is. Thanks!

I have Harbeth SHL5 Plus also and use 282/HCDR/250DR. If you like the midbass punch and dynamics of the Naim, I am afraid that separates is the only way to go if you want headroom and power. I can recommend 272 or 282/250DR or 300DR for the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus. If you listen to a wide variety of music especially dynamic music with a lot of transients and bass punch, it is wise to stay within Naim.

I attempted to drive the Harbeth with the Sonneteer Orton taken from my bedroom system and the mid-bass punch and dynamics were severely reduced when compared to the 282/250DR. Even though the volume was turned up, the punch was still missing. The beat of the bass or drums in the background is somewhat pulled back and not fully unleashed, resulting in reduced dynamics and toe-tapping factor.

In summary, if you want the speakers to sound free, dynamic and unrestrained, you need to feed it with more power, ideally with Naim amps.

So, a 250 running off the SN is an option. That should at least match a 272/250 as the pre-amps are comparable and you probably have a better streamer as source. If you could demo this, that would be interesting.

If you want power, headroom and drive, it’s not cheap and a 300 is where you are probably looking. The 250 is good but the 300 brings so much more. More than just power but sheer musicality. It’s a brilliant amplifier. It has phenomenal control and music starts and stops in an instant. The standard matching preamp is the 282 or 252, with of course a very good source to match. Perhaps surprisingly the 272/555 also matches perfectly and would address the shortcomings of your ND5XS source, which is really not up to those speakers. I and several others here are very happy with the 272/555/300 combination, which would cost a lot more to significantly better. Were you to go the 282 or 252 route you’d be looking at an NDS or NDX2 with power supply, which would cost a lot more.

More power is just that. I’d suggest a Plinius Haito it will drive anything and sound awesome doing so. And it’s not insanely priced.