Naim: changing market position and brand strategy

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  1. Yes, everything’s available at the right price :grinning_face:
  2. Depends on what you’d have to pay for it relative to your view on the future viability of the business.

Edited for a longer answer: to do something like that, I think you’d have to have a very clear & strong view on what you’d want Naim to be. Without the safety net of a parent company or diversified portfolio of car/yacht/jet/whatever products, you’d need to be laser focused on the core of the business and its ability to generate predictable, repeatable cash flow. Not saying that Alpha PE/The Vervent Group don’t do that today, but the margin for error in what you’re proposing is much smaller in a smaller, less diversified, less well-capitalised business.

For example, you can’t go into the CI or home theatre market and have it fail. With the R&D, people, and mfg costs required, that’s a fast death if it doesn’t work.

You’d most likely need debt financing to pull something off like an MBO, and looking at FY24 results, the ability to fund some losses for a few years (?). Put that together and its quite the tight ship that needs to be sailed.

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I foresee a possible Naim Forum Gofundme page :-)))

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I’m in.

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I’m not, just paid 4999 euro’s for a Nova, i expect to be considered a shareholder allready… :face_savoring_food:

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Well, you’d have to split Naim and Focal first. Unless you want the speaker business too.

Then you’d have to convince Alpha Private Equity to give up control of whatever you’re buying - for a price. The EOT would need to compensate them at fair value for at least 50% plus one share. Or all of it if they want to exit.

So then you’re either in a partnership with a significant and vocal minority or the employees take all of it and 100% of the risk. And I don’t think PE will cash out on a future stream of revenue - they want cash in hand so you’ve got the debt load on day one.

It’s generally a good structure for founders that want to cash out while allowing the business to continue for the employees. So as @Gazza said, probably could have happened if that’s what JV wanted. Smart move by Rega so far though.

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And that’s where the ‘problem’ lies, not with the PE / Focal et cetera.

Personally I see Focal and Naim as a nice match. I adore both their products.

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I would disagree.

Edit: sorry, those are weasely words.

I disagree.

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Adam, look at the bright side, in that many 2nd-generation run/owned businesses don’t do very well at all. Sometimes this arises from a lack of focus, but also from a host of other factors, many stemming from ‘unreal expectations’ IME.

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It doesn’t really matter. Hifi will vanish. Musicians will go extinct. No label will be willing to pay a penny for a human artist when AI will write a million songs in 10 seconds for free. And the streaming algorithms will eventually guide everyone to an aural singularity - an average of all music presented as a single 5 minute tone at 1451Hz.

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That’s the spirit… :sparkler:

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I thought of this myself a few years ago but never posted about it because it seemed a crazy idea. I now see it wasn’t after all..
I know little indeed about venture capitalists and financial operations, but I fear that Naim would be available for purchase once the current owners have squeezed all possible profit from it and have an empty shell to dispose of.
Either that or Focal needs amps for their speakers and end up branding car audio like so many other manufactures have done, namely Mark Levinson!

Years ago, when I was younger, impulsive and things mattered more to me, I used to call Naim a Church. I have been faithful to the brand for decades, and still love it; but I am as ready to see it disappear as I am to see myself being gone. Or will Naim, to a much lesser degree, follow the fate of The Beatles and we will see an infinite number of Nait 50-like releases, tribute amps, mods and DIY offerings of the classic designs? :grinning_face:

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I may be, too.

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That would cause a war among the public investors for sure. Just looking at the forum the things people would like to see product-wise are polar opposites. There’s a camp that bangs on about a 500 or Statement level integrated or even a statement level Uniti and a camp that wants to go back to more boxes but each one more affordable. A camp that wants more high art modern designs and a camp that wants to go back to visually simpler designs.

Many people agree that they aren’t convinced on the current direction. Very few agree on what the direction should be.

Might be simpler to just “let it go” and buy what you like from Naim and where you don’t like, shop elsewhere. Of all the things in life to cling onto by your fingernails a hifi brand isn’t one of the priorities.

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Well, you can have multiple owners but clearly can’t run a business that size by committee. There’d be a management team and a board.

With the first order of business to re-issue those 70s era promotional posters.

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Plus of course, the sun will eat up the planet and eventually, the universe will vanish. And I’ll be dead probably before NAIM is, so… y’know…

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A pretty damming article, similar to the warnings I have read on TNT audio, an Italian site that carries no advertising, and is thus rather frank about the future of HiFi.

These snippets caught my eye:

DACs, amplifiers, and streamers from companies like Topping, SMSL, Benchmark, and Schiit now deliver [high-end performance for a few hundred dollars.

In practical terms, “high-end” here often means the measurable noise and distortion are low enough to fall beneath what most listeners can reliably hear in normal use. Once gear clears that threshold, the remaining differences tend to shift away from raw fidelity and toward things like features, software, industrial design, service, and brand.

That change matters because luxury audio has long depended on a clear performance gap. When sonic differences were obvious, high prices felt easier to justify. And as those differences became harder for most listeners to detect, pricing leaned more heavily on design and storytelling rather than sound alone.

Meanwhile, prices at the very top have surged. Audiophiles now casually discuss $600,000–$750,000 loudspeakers as part of a “summit-fi tier.
The result is a squeeze from both ends. It’s easier than ever to get good sound at low cost. The ultra-high end has moved into a price range only a small group of buyers can afford.

Linn Products shows how brands respond to that squeeze. In early 2023, Linn raised prices across its lineup. Its flagship Klimax DSM/3 streamer jumped £5,000 in a single increase in the UK, and now sells for roughly $39,000 to $48,230in the US.

Google “40% of Audiophiles May Be Gone Soon, and No One Is Replacing Them” to find another interesting article, that sets out some nasty truths.

This last article, might be the explanation for Naims “lifestyle” products as they are often disparagingly called here, and why Naim stand a fighting chance of not suffering the fate of lots of well known brands.

The younger generations are listening to music in a very different way, to us relics of the Seventies.

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I read that article, some nice home truths. Made me laugh at myself, the silliness of it all, but good fun all the same.

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Totally concur on your two points.

Point 1 )
The Chinese are ripping into the DAC market and producing superb products. at all price levels.
A mate of mine has a Denafrips Venus 15th R to R DAC the build quality internally and externally is excellent.Nothing has been skimped on at all.Little things like all the rear panel sockets are made from rhodium which companies like Shunyata charge a lot of money in their products for.
It weighs 19kg in weight and retails for about £3700
The sound is incredible a huge sound stage,very detailed and natural and has an easy warmth.
I have another friend who has a Chord Dave and have spent loads of hours listening to it .
A lovely sounded DAC. But if I could choose the Denafrips Venus would be be my choice.
As its easily on par if not better at half the price .

This Chi - Fi label that people used to sneer at Chinese hifi was maybe true 10 years ago had some weight.But its such amazing VFM and their really taking on / beating European - American DACs with sound and price.
If the Denafrips Venus I spoke of was made by some new UK cottage industry manufacturer.
And had excellent reviews. And some UK audiophiles would buy it …but it would be sold at least £10 000 or higher.

Point 2

As an observation and this was about 2018 I went with a mate to the Hi Fi News Show at Windsor.
We stayed all day and we didn’t see anyone below 30 at all.It was the usual lot of guys between 40 and 70 .And a few wives dragged along.
I dont know if that was representative but that was 8 years ago but my thoughts are the old buyers are dying out and as everyone knows the younger generation aren’t really interested are they.
Even a Rega system 1 with P1 - 1O and Kyte speakers is over a grand..Ear buds - their I phone and a Bluetooth speaker for maybe £ 250 .

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Alongside Canjam events that get larger and larger and the audience is much younger.

Im not sure Naim gets it but Chord certainly does.

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So the future is more prog rock ? !!

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