Naim Nait XS2 vs XS3

Not specifically a 140/180/200, but I did experiment and have added both a NAP100 and then a 250 to my UQ2, and personally I found the sound quality improvement negligible. But, it does allow the UQ2 to pair with a wider range of speakers that require more powerful amplifier to control them. And of course, adding a power amp is also a very effective stepping stone to the world of separates if you intend to expand your system in that way.

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Valid point regarding going to separates. I will probably sell or relegate the UQ to the study room sooner or later and adding a power amp would be an intermediate step. A NAP200 would probably mean a NAC202 as a next step while a NAP180 would lead more to a NAC82. A NAC72 is not an option because of the lack o a remote control.

I think a NAP200 would be my choice, then perhaps the 282 over the 202 as the 200 can still power the 282 and keep the box count low(ish) - if separates if the long term plan that is.

Yes, its something Iā€™ve deliberated over ever since I bought the UQ2 as it opens up possibilities - one of the reasons I like it so much! Iā€™m currently using my UQ2 as a source only feeding a freshly serviced chrome bumper Nait2 and sounds so much better than expected.

These days Iā€™m inlined to keep things simpler and to a lesser box count, although Iā€™m still undecided as to which way to go - buy a dedicated streamer to replace the UQ2 which will not be sold, but used elsewhere and use it with an integrated (prob switch to a Supernait); alternatively, my original thought process being to add a power amp to the UQ2 (hence my NAP trials), then buy a 272, but Iā€™m very reluctant to go down that route unless a 272.2 /372 is released, allowing a clear path for upgrades and lesser box count.

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Thanks @YetiZone . Some interesting thoughts.

I have decided to keep streaming and amplification separate to avoid situations like with the NAC272 where a product (at least to some extent) becomes obsolete because of an outdated streaming section. My solution is a RPI-based Roon endpoint into a Naim DAC.

I am with you on the box count and two more devices (e.g. pre/power amp) is the maximum I want to add.

UQ plus NAIT2 sounds like a cool combination for which I have a lot of sympathy but I need something with a remote control.

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I disagree. An Atom drives Iota Alphas extremely well, so a Nait XS should have no problems.

To the OP, Iā€™d go for the XS2, especially if you see yourself upgrading in the reasonably near future.

Roger

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I have recently moved from an XS2 (2020) with FlatCap 2X (to an SN2 with CHC CAP) and the XS2 is a really superb amp, PLENTY of power and does everything really well.

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@toscana The idea of the RPI based set up does appeal, but Iā€™m also left curious about just how reliable the control App is going to be. Intriguing idea though to use the RPI with the N-DAC.

Iā€™ve had the multi box systems in the past, and although they were undoubtedly impressive, satisfying and rewarding, Iā€™m now leaning towards source first and keep everything else downstream simple, especially after hearing just how darned good this little Nait2 can sound with just a mid level Rega deck for vinyl, and UQ2 streaming local files.

On the subject of remote controls, yes, agree, the remote control is a plus point for the later amps, but Iā€™m not finding it that much of an issue generally with my Nait2, but Iā€™l admit, it can be frustrating at times. Funnily enough, itā€™s the outstanding remote interface and superb volume control of the UQ2 and 272 via the Naim App / remote being the main reason itā€™s still on my radar!

@YetiZone I am using a Raspberry Pi 4 with a DigiOne HAT and Ropieee as operating system. It was reasonably straightforward to set up and cost under 200 EUR in total. The RPI is plugged into one of the BNC inputs of the Naim DAC and hidden behind the DAC. The Roon app (although not perfect) is significantly better than the Naim App. Overall, I find this a very cost efficient and great sounding solution.
There are even more options to play around like the Signature version of the DigiOne and linear power supplies. But I havenā€™t look into those yet.

I am also a big fan of the 0-100 volume control of the UQ2, especially since we have our TV hooked up to the DAC/ UQ2 as well. With streaming duties covered by the RPI and by maybe adding an external power amp, I am wondering how good the pre-amp section of the UQ2 really is. But the convenience of the volume control alone might be worthwhile to give it a try.

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Ah, I see, interesting set up. Iā€™m now really curious to see which direction you will go in!

Interesting setup. Iā€™ve owned three UQs over the years personally I think the UQ pre section is pretty good especially on the UQ2 BT version.

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Iā€™m hopefully going to demo XS 2 and 3 in a few weeks. Not sure whether to use ND5 XS2 as source, or a Naim DAC like yours. As even though the ND5 XS2 is new, I do wonder about streaming platform obsolescence. I do also have to support vinyl, so have a Stageline lined up in case I go the XS2 route.

Assuming the demo goes ahead I can let you know my thoughts, as a data point at least.

FWIW I also think a bit about XS 3 vs second hand SN2, given their similarity in price. That sets up quite a varied demo cos I guess for XS3 money you could go XS2 plus a PS upgrade on the DAC. Or SN2. Or heck, NAC 72 & NAP 250 :wink:

@gthack
I guess we can compare notes then :wink::
The pre-loved XS 2 I found at a dealer here was already sold by the time I had made up my mind. Fortunately, another opportunity came up and I have now bought a late XS 2 (from 2019) at a reasonable price. The seller also offered a FlatcapXS but based on the mixed reviews on this forum, I decided to take a pass on the Flatcap. Now I have to be patient over the Easter holidays and the amplifier should be here by the end of next week hopefully.
I am also contemplating upgrade opportunities for the nDAC but the matching power supplies are mostly out of my budget (even used ones). The only options would be an olive XPS or a XP5XS but these rarely pop up on the used market here and based on what I have read might not represent a significant upgrade anyway. Oh well.

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Oh thatā€™s great, itā€™ll be a long week :ā€™)

I strongly suspect Iā€™ll go the XS 2, sounds like theyā€™re hard to beat. I could almost do the XS 2 plus Naim DAC for the price of a 3, put that way I think the 3 would have to obliterate the 2 on a demo to persuade me.

Howā€™s your DAC to use?

Apart from the sound improvements, usability was one of the main reasons for me to buy the Naim DAC. I have my RPI streamer, CD player, TV and Sky Box connected to the DAC and everything can be controlled with my Harmony remote control.
I briefly looked at other DACs like the Chord Qutest but most of them have fewer inputs and/or cannot be remote controlled. If used only for music purposes that might not be a problem but I was looking for a digital hub and here the Naim DAC is doing a wonderful job.

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Just to close the loop on this discussion: I finally decided to go with a preloved NAIT XS 2 (from 2019) and it arrived on Saturday and is warming up now. Thanks everyone for the input.

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Congratulations ā€” itā€™s a fine amp you got yourself! :slight_smile:

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To those that have had an XS and ā€œupgradedā€ to a SN with no other system changes, I wonder what you really gain by that move. Whatā€™s magical about the XS, to me, is the energetic timing of the presentation. The SN2, which I owned TWICE, largely on the belief it ā€œhad to beā€ better, had a better separation of voices and instrumentation, but that was something more to admire than with which to participate. In other words, some types of audiophile traits, such as soundstage depth, donā€™t always equate with emotional connection. Emotional connection may not be everyoneā€™s goal, but it is mine and in the end, there was something vital and emotional about the XS and something boring and technical about the SN2. If Iā€™m wrong or deaf, which both I may be, why is the SN3 touted as sounding ā€œfasterā€ than than the SN2 and why does Naim think thatā€™s an improvement? Think, but more importantly, feel.

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To be honest the differences as you go up the chain are not always clear cut unless you make big jumps. Iā€™ve been back and forth between my NAC152xs and a NAC202 with the power supply added and the 202 is definitely better (more weight to the sound a little less sibilant)ā€¦. But itā€™s only by the tiniest margin that I only really notice when doing back to back AB tests and activity listening for it. Itā€™s close enough that I doubt I could pick it reliably in a blind test especially at typical listening volumes.

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I also have the xs2 from 2018 and auditioned the xs3. Soundwiseā€¦ no difference. The case surface treatment seems to be better on the new one. The Volume knob is much better on the xs3. I donā€˜t care about vinyl, but xs3 has a built in phono stage. There is a bit less white noise from the speakers and the pops when switching channels and turning on is softer on the xs3.

The xs3 is 1000ā‚¬ more, I decided is not worth it.

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I have a maxed out XS system, CD5XS feeding Ndac,XS2 with Flatcap XS and a moderately specified LP12 all feeding into a pair of Neat Motives all with Powerlines and Witch Hat Morgana and Phantoms.
I love the sound of my system but I know the upgrade bug will be hard to resist and I was thinking that the SN3 would be a good place to start but Iā€™m now not sure if it will just up set the balance of everything.
Long term the plan would be to add an XPS-2 to the Ndac and then a change of speakers possibly to the Neat Ekstras or do I just stick with what Iā€™ve got and put the money in the bank.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated