Naim nDac: local files vs CD transport

@daddycool You’re so kind. Thanks

We’ve been working towards this for a few years now. ( Maybe you already knew that). Think I’m done at this point. Just listening to a lot of music now. Can’t claim too much credit for room ambience, as my best mate and wife is the lead on such things. My own contribution is the tech” side. Fortunately, music is a shared passion. I guess the cross over is where the interior design affects room acoustics and then we have the think together.

Did you see the “Systems Pics 2025” posted recently - maybe early October- when we first set up this new room / system ?

Back on topic - quick observation to share - it was only maybe as recently as late teens 2015 onwards, that felt streaming had reached a mature enough stage to rival or even surpass other formats. The introduction of Naim next gen’ streamers - ND5 XS2 / NDX2 / ND555 in 2018 - was part of that equation ( for me) also the evolution and maturing of high quality streaming platforms like Qobuz and Tidal. Maybe a final piece ( again for me ) was Roon, which I had first experienced in its guise as Meridian Sooloos. Brilliant UI.

Think if you get it right, no reason why vinyl - CD - local streaming - streaming from music platforms - can all co-exist, all same or similar SQ.

Sure.
So, I guess it really depends on how you wish to set things up, maybe for different formats. Which might be a very personal thing. Or maybe tip the balance and invest heavily in just one source or format.

In our case, the above experiment - a quick attempt to answer the question in your OP - shows that our digital sources are same or similar. (The nDAC probably goes a long way to levelling things out). Equally, it might be an aim to set up for Streaming as best source, with a CD Transport to occasionally spin a CD, or vice versa.

In fact, @feeling_zen made a similar point in the first post replying to your OP.

The nDAC + 555PS is such a good place to be. So, good luck with what ever you do next.

Good luck
Happy listening
R

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Hi, yes over the years there has been much commentary on this on the forum. The answer is almost certainly yes. The sound rendered by the nDAC will be affected by various characteristics of the digital source. This can be related to the SPDIF framing clock, cleanliness of the SPDIF framing voltages, as well as any low level circulating HF currents - and potentially even the source reactance of the digital source . The nDAC in my experience was quite sensitive to these, and these aspects were improved upon in the later streaming products.

Now whether the digital source is streamed from a file or streamed from a disc extraction is largely immaterial, but the above considerations will affect the what you hear (subtlely) on the nDAC.

BTW playing files from a USB memory stick, I found the rear port sounded subjectively slightly better - your mileage might vary.

In my experience the nDAC with a NON DR 555PS provides a very organic sounding DAC - yes not the last word in finesse or detail but smooth and enjoyable, works very well with vocals and rock and pop with a strong bass drive. If you are into choral, acoustic, folk etc you might find more suited sources elsewhere . at least that was the case for me.

I did enjoy my nDAC and it was only when the Hugo 1 came along which in my opinion is a significant step up in terms of insight and believability on acoustic, choral and complex mixes with many layers, did I replace my nDAC .. but to be fair the Hugo 1 didn’t have the rhythmic drive of the nDAC which is quite special in this regard.

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I’ve now had a chance to compare locally streamed files against playback from a dedicated CD transport using rips of the same discs.

For streaming, we (there was another pair of ears on the day) used an ND5XS2 and a Lindemann Limetree Bridge II with a linear PSU. For CD playback, Audiolab 9000CDT. All sources were connected via SPDIF into the nDAC.

While the ND5XS2 and Lindemann sounded broadly similar - the Naim perhaps a little heavier in the bottom end, the Lindemann slightly airier (with upsampling off) - the CD transport was ahead of both. There was more space between notes, greater sense of ambience and overtones, a wider and deeper soundstage, finer textures and micro-details (with no hint of glare or sibilance), and bass that carried its weight with more control. The presentation was rhythmic, taut, alive; musical and engaging in all the right ways. Beautiful, really.

That outcome genuinely surprised me and the other listener. I was expecting only mild flavour shifts, as has usually been the case when comparing digital sources in the past. Yet this change in digital feed transformed the sound completely. It was also evident on my headphones rig. Once again, I was reminded that the nDAC rewards careful partnering if you want to get the very best out of it.

Interestingly, when I later read through user impressions of Audiolab’s transport (which I’d deliberately avoided reading in detail beforehand), I found several describing almost exactly what I’d heard. It makes me wonder: do CD transports have their own sonic signatures, or is this simply a case of a particularly well-executed design? After all, the qualities I’m describing should, in theory, be objectively desirable.

A small disclaimer: system synergy is crucial. If my setup was already on the revealing side, the same change could easily have tipped things toward an uncomfortable assault of detail. So I’m not making any “ultimate” claims here. But in my system, a CD played on this transport beats its ripped equivalent on both streamers - (subjectively) without question.

The next question now is whether there’s a network bridge or streamer out there that could bring a similar sense of space, timing and detail or is this CD transport simply that good?

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I was at this listening session, I brought along my newly purchased nd5 xs2 and I was totally biased thinking it would sound better than the Limetree Bridge II through the nDac and be way better than a CD transport with its moving parts and 1980s technology. Well, how wrong was I??? The CD player was streets ahead… but what does this mean? Well, the nd5 xs2 sounded nice, couldn’t hear much of a difference between the nd5 xs2 and the Limetree. In combination with the nDac perhaps the nd5 xs2 was a little dark in presentation, lots of bass and not as airy as with my naim nds. A very enjoyable listen. Tried some tracks from Qobuz and then we decided a fair test would be rips of the CDs in flac format from a local upnp server for the streamers and of course the real shiny CDs in the CD player. I sat back in the comfy chair, centre of the audio triangle, perfect distance from each speaker. Switched between inputs on the nDac and blow me, the CD player was awesome, engaging, captivating. I wasn’t expecting this. What is it with streaming, even of local files? Does tcp/ip get in the way? Or the operating systems? Where is the magic lost? Bravo to Audiolab. I’d love to hear a naim cd555 one day. Have we missed a trick by moving to streamers? Convenient for sure, Qobuz Connect is lovely, browsing music is so easy…but the best audio quality? Not sure about that.

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My 200 is….somewhere in storage in the house. But for a time I had lent my CDX to my wife while her CD3.5 was back at the shop for a new laser. So I had the 200 running into the nDAC, and it was bloody good.

Edit: LOL LOL….I’ve found it on top of the “mountain” rack (six foot tall - photos have been shown here), but not connected to the nDAC! I really should do something about it.

Interesting write-up, but it reminds me of the difference I hear between ripped CDs in AIFF format on a USB stick into the rear of the ND5-XS2 / nDAC, versus any kind of (FLAC) stream.

I heard this difference a decade ago already when I first compared via Audirvana 3.5 on a MacBookPro playing local files against playing a Qobuz stream in the same software. Via USB into DAC-V1 into Nait 2. That was the first time I had considered abandoning vinyl, and we (family) decided otherwise. The system is now a few levels up, but the principle remains.

Surely the CD transport is good, but I can imagine that way the difference you heard might be less significant with the USB stick compared to (local or external) streaming, another difference.

Possibly several things at play here, the file format as (especially then) I could hear FLAC and Apple Lossless losing sparkle vs. WAV and AIFF, so I ripped to AIFF. And USB-stick playback vs. any form of network transmission, there seems to be “sound” to a network either wired or via wifi. And the CD player must have been very good, it is possible that in a fair comparison with same level and same brand of CD5-XS (with CDs) vs. ND5-XS2 (with USB-stick files) via nDAC there is not that much difference. All repeatable experiments for the long winter months!

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I have a CD5/FC combo; as soon as I tried streaming after ripping a few CDs, I realised, probably like that guy from Linn, that streaming was the way forward. After a few tracks, it was obvious. I now use Roon and an unNaimed DAC, feeding my Naim amplification. My other source is my record deck.

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Your post made me chuckle… indeed streaming isn’t automatically better, it’s all in the implementation. I use a CDT into my streamer along with other digital audio sources. Each source has a slight characteristic, but then I use my streamer (NDX2) as a digital hub and feed a seperate DAC.

My CDT sounds better (slightly) being re clocked by my digital hub rather than going directly into my DAC.. so it’s all about implementation.

In my setup my CDT is good but I wouldn’t say it’s better than my UPnP or even always better than cloud streaming sources. Indeed sometimes they are indistinguishable .. unless I critically do an A/B comparison with my setup.

But yes with streaming there are variables just like with everything else.. you are right CD is 80s tech, and streaming is late 90s tech. They have both been around over quarter of a century now… and each can have its advantages… but digital sources each impart a character.. if you ever hear somebody say it’s all just ones and zeros.. then walk away, as they clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

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Hi @Rya and @TRelx

Just checked back to see how this thread was progressing and enjoyed reading your accounts. Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

My takeaway, ( which I kinda already had some insight from reading all the other accounts of this item ), is that the Audiolab 9000 CDT really is VFM.

If you already have a nDAC + psu, or frankly any decent external DAC in your system, then adding the Audiolab seems like great value, for spinning the odd CD.

I’d already thought, if our CD5 XS ever fails, I’d immediately add the Audiolab.

BW
R

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I think you’ll be very happy with the Audiolab. I have never owned a Naim CD player so I can’t compare but I use the (even more) budget CDT 6000 and I couldn’t be happier. Since I started using Roon, I only kept my CD’s because of the emotional investment in building my Blue Note collection over 30 years and only go for an occasional spin. I ran the 6000 CDT through the digital input on my SN1, which sounded almost as good as my much more costly streaming source. I added an nDAC about 6 months ago which has been the absolute best VFM purchase I ever made, digital sources just came alive and changed my whole perception of non-vinyl listening. Running the 6000 CDT through the nDAC kept me playing CD’s for 3 weeks straight, what a joy.

I also replaced my streamer / dac with a streamer only (Primare NP5 with ifi xPower) but CD was still notably better. Then I added a Bonn Silent Angel switch this week (I swore I would never buy into that snake oil…) and now CD and Roon are at the same level but that’s probably for another thread :slight_smile:

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Strangely I had the big Sony ES777 SACD player into Ndac with 555ps. This consistently out performed a CDS 3 that I had for a while. A CDX2.2 into Ndac/555 was closer but often less satisfying. I did conclude that the Sony was closer to an ND555 than any of the CD players I’d had. Certainly a lot less coloured and more natural.

They were awesome bits of kit. Glad it worked out (much) better for you than the ES CD player I had (X333ES IIRC).

Yes, I very much admired the Sony’s build quality and it was heavier than my CDP555. It was built like a tank. I got it in about 2002 when they first came out and it never missed a single beat. The only thing missing was steam rising as the CD tray door slid open.

Interesting maybe the media conversion from electrical to fibre and back is benefiting the nDAC.

No-one said there is total science & understanding to this streaming business and its affect on the production of analog music, but be prepared to experiment with open mind & open ears.

I felt it was worth posting a further follow-up, as the last few weeks have turned into a surprisingly fascinating set of discoveries around getting the best out of the nDAC, prompted originally by hearing it fed from a dedicated CD transport.

Before arriving here, I also spent time optimising the network side, which proved more consequential than expected. The current LAN path is:

[Router / LAN] > [10m Ethernet CAT6 cable from upstairs] > [Network switch (powered by linear PSU)] > [Short Ethernet CAT6 cable link] > [Ethernet to fibre media converter with SFP-out] > [Fibre link] > [SFP-in Streamer] > [SPDIF] > [nDAC]

The key change was breaking the electrical Ethernet connection just before the streamer first (to test with Lindemann), and then by introducing fibre via the media converter. The NEW streamer (a higher spec’d device with built in linear power supply, femto-grade master clocks and isolated digital outputs) I am currently testing against my default Lindemann streamer accepts SFP natively, and this resulted in quieter backgrounds, cleaner leading edges and more stable timing - reinforcing just how sensitive the nDAC is to the quality of the digital environment feeding it. Before introducing the “isolating” switch even though the sound was perceptually warmer (lack of definition perhaps?), the highs managed come across as more harsh as well (increased common noise?).

Coming back to the new streamer itself (and not claiming universals here), I wanted to give one example of what this translated to musically. While playing “Hail, Hail” by Pearl Jam, I suddenly became aware of a hi-hat moving in and out of syncopation, where it had previously felt like part of the main groove. It completely changed how I perceived the track (more tension, more push-pull) and it’s something I had never consciously noticed before. It was a reminder that it’s not just about “detail” in the hi-fi sense, but about understanding why the music feels the way it does.

As resolution and separation improved, however, the presentation could also feel intense, and not all recordings benefited equally. This wasn’t about any brightness or tonal imbalance but it felt rather forensic. That raised the question of how best to live with this increased insight without simply undoing the gains elsewhere. One upside of this was that the system started sounding much better at lower listening levels.

I initially tried introducing more forgiveness at the source by reverting to the standard lavender cable between nDAC and NAC52, and also reinstating stock Naim interconnects between the Supercap and the 135s (replacing a pair of DIY Mogami 2497 XLR-to-DIN cables I used prior). In this setup, however, timing, detail clarity and pace were traded away in a way that felt congested. The same source-to-pre interaction was also audible via my headphone rig fed from the NAC52 tape out, which proved a useful sanity check and helped rule out room effects.

What worked better in my system was allowing the source to stay clean and resolved (keeping a more revealing third-party source-to-pre interconnect), and letting any integration happen further downstream. Using the stock Naim interconnects between Supercap and 135s provided excellent cohesion and control without over-blending or collapsing the soundstage.

At this point, the new streamer almost feels like a technical ceiling in my system. Any further “tuning” seems less about adding insight and more about deciding where to soften the presentation, if at all. In a sensitive, revealing setup, this feels analogous to using film stock in cinematography where film grain as an aesthetic choice (a conscious decision about mood in a way) and one, at least in my case, that makes more sense at the amplification stage rather than at the source.

Now, to answer my own questions about whether I could find a similarly sounding network bridge? Or is that CDT simply that good?

I have no way to compare it side by side any more, the CDT was a loan, but the newly introduced streamer preserves transient edges exceptionally well (very rhythmical), manges to improve detail without sounding harsh, tightens bass onset and decay, reduces temporal smearing and blends ambience with musical content (notably soundstage depth) in a way that definitely resonates with what impressed me about the CD transport, and how it now compares against my default streamer. While, it’s a double-edged sword at times - less-than-perfect recordings sound just that - I’ve found it difficult to return to a more forgiving or “warmer” presentation since. I have had long evenings with it where I wasn’t tempted to switch tracks, or look for the next better sounding recording and that’s always a good sign! Also done with testing for now…

Somehow managed to delete my previous post by accident so reposting.

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Some nice descriptions of the impact noise has on a digital system. When I was contemplating moving from my CDP555 to full on streaming and eventually an ND555, I couldn’t help noting that as good as the CDP555 was it always had this slight mechanical overtone by comparison to streaming. As if I was somehow hearing the stored energy in the way the mechanics works with CD’s. It was something I discussed with my dealer, who also agreed with my comments. We both concluded that any system without moving parts was probably going to sound better than one with moving parts. I’ve been astonished at just how sensitive the digital signal is and how much better things get as you remove levels of noise from the digital environment. The level of musical replay I now experience is substantially better than I could ever get from CD’s.

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I mostly listen to Qobuz and Vinyl but since I have more than 500 CDs, I bought a REGA Planet 2000 that works perfectly and that I use as a drive… I am not looking to absolutely hear differences when listening to the two media, but the sound on the REGA seems a little clearer to me with firmer bass, but it’s subtle!

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Fascinating story, thanks.

It brought back memories of my nDAC, bought very shortly after it was introduced, as an upgrade to my CD5XS in which role it proved an excellent purchase. Then, prompted by a one-time frequent poster on here, I acquired a Mac Mini and ran that into the nDAC. Mac Minis in those days had a rather good optical digital out which is how I connected it to the DAC via a pricy glass fibre optical cable. Somewhat to my surprise that sounded a touch better than the CD player as source. The difference was small, but introduced a little more air and resolution into the mostly classical stuff I was listening to ant the time and this persisted when an XPS was added.

But, running a headless Mac was not the last word in ease of functionality, so I eventually moved to a 272 and the nDAC departed chez nous.

Roger

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Exactly what I did replacing a CDX2 in 2011. 3 Mac Minis and now on UPNP it’s still the core of my approach. Can be a pain sometimes but you get used to keeping it optimal and running. I like the fact it’s tucked away by my NAS and a lot the computing stuff is in a computer (and a £500 bargain at that) rather than a costly bit of hi fi. Audirvāna btw for the nice iPad app and the better SQ.

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Yes, optical irons out the sound and I did try it on both devices; it rendered a gentler (not as detailed and not as spacious) sound in direct comparison to coax. I will retire the current streamer to my bedroom (optical out feeding an integrated amp) - ideal for that.

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