Naim NDS - still a good used buy?

Thanks for all the helpful responses folks (and even the unhelpful ones!).

I think there’s a fairly good consensus that at least SQ wise the NDS remains near the top of the digital tree. Some understandable question marks over the feature set in 2021 but I think they can be overcome with Roon fronting the system and Sonore UPNP bridge. Perfect for me as I’m already a committed Roon and now ROCK user since it was released.

I’ll be saving up for an NDS and a Sonore in due course. Hopefully the prices stay low :slight_smile:

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For a neutral, objective assessment of options you would have to ask this question outside of the Naim forums. The opinions here are ofcourse heavily biased by ownership, brand allegiance, etc.

Now that doesn’t mean that the NDS isn’t a good sounding device, i’m sure it is. But if you want to know if it’s still good value for money in 2021 at £2 - 2.5K, then on the Naim forums you will always hear “hell yea!”, and on most other audio forums it would perhaps be a different assessment.

The isolation doesn’t seem to do much, since most of the Cisco / EE8 / audiophile network switch threads on these forums were apparently started because it was determined that the old streamers were very susceptible to interference and network noise, and therefore need extra attention in this area compared to newer models.

I notice from your profile that you’re currently running an Auralic Aeries into an nDAC. You could just run the Aeries into the BNC digital input of the NDS, shutting down all other inputs, including the streaming module. The Sonore UPNP bridge isn’t strictly necessary for you to add Roon capability.

I may be wrong here but I believe @Suedkiez was referring to the isolation associated with the mounting of the DAC boards on the leaf sprung brass plates. This is the same in the NDS and ND555.

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I meant the mechanical stuff like the sub-chassis. Though anyways, my main point in this reply was that literally all of this (same DAC chip but not same mechanics between the NDS and nDAC, the limitations of the NDS’s streamer part and what it means for the answer to the question, and so on) had already been dissected in great detail yesterday in this thread (and of course in lots of older threads, too). Which Ivo would have known if he had had the courtesy of reading or at least skimming the thread before bestowing his one-and-only-correct judgement.

Edit: Indeed @trickydickie :slight_smile:

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I bought a Bluesound Node 2i.

It sounded rubbish compared to my then 272.

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If you use a Node 2i only as a streamer, not as a preamp, it will have no specific sound. The sound is determined by the preamp that you load it into.

I think we must take care to be precise. Should be the case (but I’m open to surprises) if you use it only as a streamer and not as a DAC. Not anymore once you use it’s internal DAC into an analog preamp. I don’t know how JimDog used it

Wow! Just woke up (it’s early here) to find this thread has blown up. Is the NDS still a good used buy was the question and I thought @Suedkiez answered it well even with research notes. Then Simon and a few others chimed in and I thought “case-closed”. Then I noticed someone is trolling the thread. I guess I should thank the troll for entertaining me with his/her opinion. Almost better than my first cup of coffee. lol

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I agree… being precise starts with not using generic terms like “it sounded rubbish”, which is inflammatory. Or comparing a 500,- entry streamer to a full 4500,- preamp + streamer in the first place.

In the spirit of the latter part of the thread :slight_smile:

To be fair, this argument had in the first place been made by Ivo. JimDog’s answer was in the context of this:

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My two penn’uth: I stream exclusively from local NAS and I use iRadio. I have no plans to subscribe to any streaming service any time soon as I can use Spotify my iPad for basic discovery. If I like what I hear I will buy the CD and rip to NAS.

I had an NDX when I attended a local demo of NDS vs ND 555, and subsequently ND5XS2, and NDX2 Demos. To my ears the NDS ran the ND555 sufficiently close to make it a fantastic ex-demo buy; I was underwhelmed by the other new streamers (apart from the fancy screen the NDX2).

So for my circumstances, NDS is an absolute bargain. I have it with a 555PS and it is a very musical combination for the outlay.

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Well to a large extent, yes - the reconstruction IIR digital filter design (DSP) and architecture is the same since the Naim DAC all those years ago.
Sure the analogue output stages have evolved slightly along with the current to voltage converter - but the reconstruction approach and the use of Analog Devices SHARC processors has stayed the same.
In fact the NDX, NDX2 and ND5XS2 all share the same approach as well - albeit different TI converter chips are used

Simon

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The Aries has been moved to another system and I’m currently using a Roon ROCK NUC fed to an Audiophilleo USB/SPDIF Interface into the nDAC/XPS. I would of course be able to do the same direct into an NDS but it would need to be compared to the Sonore UPNP bridge route.

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Should be an interesting comparison. Interesting also to know what you think of the NDS compared to nDAC if/when you go that route.

Despite it’s unique extensive clocking mechanism (described in a Naim white paper somewhere) the nDAC seems to be, stubbornly, one of those DACs whose performance appears to scale up continuously the more you throw at the quality of the incoming digital source. Just another variable to throw into the mix!

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It is a debate of are you buying the technology or the sound

It is a bargain for the sound and might be expensive for the tech ( I don’t see any difference from the new platform if you like your tidal/Spotify)

Think of dac chip sets, why a brand new naim streamer over a 10k using an old chip? So are you buying an old tech? Aren’t new chips supposed to be better? Apparently they are not according to Naim’s choice.

The technology improvements on Hi-Fi gear does not always focus on the best sound but many other factor otherwise we all be using reel to reel tapes

Well that could be for many reasons, from thats what they think is best, all the way too the other end and its what we know and it cheap to just carry on with it.
But i do think that its well known that the burr brown dac chips are a good sounding chip, i guess there are better these days, plus other ways to do it like chord and the ring dac, to name just 2

Is it really though? 2-2.5K is a lot of money, you can get some really great sounding new gear for that amount too.

Are we mainly calling it a bargain because it used to cost 10K a number of years ago? Or is it really a bargain?

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Yes but my point was that the latest is not always the best…NDS is a solid sounding machine specially for around 2/3 k price and if you already own a PS, way better than economic streaming alternatives with loaded latest tech

If you don’t own a PS it becomes a little expensive for sure

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I agree

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