Naim + Roon, alone together?

I am not sure if this is true? Maybe you are right?

20-bit resolution is 120 dB dynamic range, beyond this the LSB is lost in the noise floor, certainly bits beyond 22. There’s a good discussion here:


Thanks @Suedkiez , so that means I can stop worrying about volume leveling in Roon.

It’s a choice, but probably not a bad one :wink:

I believe there are differences. No network expert but believe that it is at least three factors in play here (excluding any use of dsp etc.).
First the “carrier” raat vs upnp, I think there might be small differences here, at least I think the built in my Synology and minim sounded slightly different (possibly also slightly file format dependent) so why not raat vs upnp?
Second, the hardware, I now use a nuc w. Linear PS as roon core and believe the LPS bring a nice uplift in sound.
Third network and placement of music server in the network, w. Upnp I definitely preferred having the nas on the same dedicated switch just before the streamer vs further away. This was also true with the nuc and roon. However, right now I have the nuc by the router and first switch all connected to the same LPS (which have three dc outlets), I have not switched back to compare, but believe I enjoy streamed music more after the move. Local is still good! Have not used the Naim app for upnp streaming in many months but roon is now well on par with the Naim app for Qobuz streaming in my system.

I just came across ASR measurements of the Roon volume control in case you are interested:

Hoping this link is ok to post. If it gets removed, google for audiosciencereview whitepaper roon dsp volume measurements.

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Roon volume leveling does actually impact the SQ of the Linn Klimax DSM/3! I listened it with on and off for a long time to make sure that I did not make any premature judgement, but I had to turn if off in the end because I felt that it made the music slightly duller, less dynamic, and weaker top-end attacks on some passages.

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I don’t know how. You did compensate for the fact that it reduces volume for most tracks?

I only used the Roon recommended defaults, maybe the Linn implementation is too sensitive:

Yes, but I mean that the target volume level imposed by leveling means that the volume will be reduced for most albums because their default loudness is higher than the target volume. (Some, but usually fewer, albums will have increased volume by leveling because they were mastered with lower volume). You can see this in the signal path:

So, if you toggle the leveling on and off, you must compensate for this by upping the volume manually when the leveling is enabled. Else, it will sound worse simply because the volume is lower.

Thanks @Suedkiez, I know that, but for now I have decided turn if off, because different levels from each track does not cause too discomfort if I listen at some moderate level.

I just wanted to make sure because it is often forgotten :slight_smile: Well if it makes a difference for you, you’ll have to do without. Not a huge problem anyway

If you use album level, as you should, and not track level, the levels between the tracks of an album are still different with leveling, anyway. Just sayin’ :slight_smile:

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I was over on what’s best forum and they were discussing Roon versus a new player that is coming out exclusively for Taiko extreme server users.
One member said Roon users should delete the DSP filters completely for better sound. The few members that actually did it seemed to agree that it sounds better.
If you click on DSP, you have the option to disable them, but this takes it further, you can actually delete them. I have done this myself now, but have not had enough time to form an opinion.
Has anyone heard of, or tried this ?
They were saying the latest Roon releases were sonically a downgrade from older versions, but doing this is a big plus.
You can add the filters again if you want, so no harm trying…I am😀

What DSP filters are you on about here. If DSP isn’t active on your stream it won’t affect anything if mean removing them from the DSP tree if inactive that is a load of crock, makes no difference from being disabled or removing them as it’s not processing anything. Last version of Roon had a big memory leak they just fixed. Didn’t affect sq to me at all but it did make it inoperable at times. Taiko accused Roon of degrading sound once when 1.8 came out and they got burned by Rooms CEO , it ended up being an update Taiko had done and nothing to do with Roon.

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Just repeating what I read, no need to cut my head off. Click the little speaker on the bottom right, delete them individually.

I’d only delete unwanted filters for tidiness.

This suggestion is akin to having Naim Jazz as a radio favourite improves SQ on the Naim App.

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When you master it is very common to apply noise-shaped dither (like POW R #3 or UV22HD) to get more dynamic range. The documentation for these products often say something like: “not recommended for operations where dither will be applied successively (e.g. bounce and freeze)”.

Anyone tested how this plays out with a digital volume control (which always should include dither)?

Perhaps some enterprising manufacturers even apply something like UV22 after their digital volume control to get ahead (more dynamic range, wider image, more punch)?

You (and maybe also @anon23425299) may be interested in the thread “DSP enable lowers sound quality” (sic!) on the Roon forum. There are some interesting explanations by a Roon developer (also regarding volume, with some math for @anon23425299), and some hilarious scenes were some people are convinced that flipping the DSP ON switch alone makes them hear SQ differences, until it turns out that this is just a UI representation and does nothing at all.


Will check that out when I have some time.

To be picky roons CTO wrote in that (or some other) thread that DSP OFF makes sure that all sub-sections within dsp are “off”. Setting it to “on” is said to have no effect.

I have never tried removing filters. Maybe one should …

In the footer of the screen - look at the little colored light/icon. If it is purple then you are running in lossless mode. If its not purple click on it to see the signal-path and what is causing the non-purpleness.