Naim Statement + Stella Utopia

To be fair… digital noise shaping your Ethernet infrastructure is really tweaking, just like mains spur wiring etc, and sure it can have some relatively subtle effects with some equipment… however from the OP’s description we are talking more fundamentals here.

So I would suggest focus on the fundamentals, of which room/speaker coupling is, then work back optimising as you see fit.

Considering @joeling 's description, I very much doubt that tweaking the network will solve what seems to be an acoustic issue.

Acoustic treatment and speakers positioning is probably a better starting point.

Unless, of course, the tweeters are faulty.

In my setup it was not subtle … it was omg … it has been very important to my system…the bass texture and weight…openess… I think at this sort of system level I think it essential to look at all elements in the chain…
I use a main cisco switch to distribute around house and an aqvox se in audio room. This replaced a netgear switches…

Ok I am not denying your experience, and indeed your previous equipment could have been faulty in some way such as creating excessive EMI further adding to your improved outcome.

But the OP from their description appears to be talking about sound balance, reflections and speaker room coupling … rather than unmasking of detail through the change or reduction in digital coupled noise.

FWIW I have discovered the better room coupling/treatments or headphone balance is, the less sensitive one becomes to tweaks… it’s almost as if the distortions or imbalances in a room can accentuate certain minuscule defects in the sound replay… get the balance right however and these issues become less apparent to being irrelevant whilst the overall system performance improves in terms of audio replay. It’s almost counter intuitive but absolutely is my experience… both professionally many years back, and as an amateur now.

I agree that ‘hoping’ is probably not a wise approach. Given the investment thus far, hiring the services of a professional to check and where necessary address the room sounds sensible.
My suggestions of trying rugs was a Sunday afternoon task … and if it helps a little may provide the motivation to get it done properly.
I guess it’s important to appreciate the sound from speakers is the effect of them coupling into your room… there are many variables… and in a shared living space one has to accept compromise.

It’s far more controlled with headphones, but even here one has the size and shape of ear, as well as shape and size of the listeners auditory canal, as well as the individuals hearing response… all these add to a variation of perceived sound.

My point is the speaker/headphone interaction is probably the most critical element to get right for realistic audio replay.

That’s obviously right!

Even Though the description seems to lead to an acoustic issue it might simply be that the speakers don’t fit taste/expectations.

That’s a wise advise. Basic room treatment, is something quite easy to achieve.

But when it comes to both somewhat even the frequency response and, more importantly, the decay time throughout the audible spectrum, it’s a very different task.

I’ve been there. That’s quite a journey in terms of learning, and finally trial/error process. The result is brilliant, and measurable.

Of course, it could have been less expensive and quicker to hire a professional (but not as fun! :smiley:).

Indeed, and let’s not forgot for us humans, we don’t require it to be even frequency response across the audio spectrum… we have sensitivities in certain areas and it is these we should focus on… and they vary slightly from person to person.

Sean Olive, an audio researcher found the following with headphones, but maps to preference with speakers as well when coupled into a room.

”Harman curve Lovers”: This group, which constitutes 64% of listeners, includes mostly a broad spectrum of people, although they’re generally under age 50. They prefer headphones tuned close to the Harman curve.

“More Bass Is Better”: This next group, which makes up 15% of listeners, prefers headphones with 3 to 6dB more bass than Harman curve below 300Hz, and 1dB more output above 1kHz. This group is predominantly male and younger.

“Less Bass Is Better”: This group, 21% of listeners, prefers 2 to 3dB less bass than the Harman curve and 1dB more output above 1kHz. This group is disproportionately female and older than 50.”

Note where we have great sensitivity is notorious for room reflections.

If it`s correct as you say, that when the room is perfectly tuned and measured it should handle every speakerdesign equally? It seems like this is not the case here then?

This was my point from the beginning, Wavewood is not necessarily the best for this room/ setup, myself I use Cinema Round Premium in the celing and at first reflections. Wavewood took my bad roomreflections into a new level, unbearable.

Using the correct absorbents, placing them exactly where they work for the best will give you an idea of the correct amount of absorbents. This makes a huge impact to how the speakers behave in this particular room.

Again, just my huimble experience :blush:

S

Absolutely!

But…

There is no such thing as a perfectly tuned room.
That’s simply not possible.
E.g. you can’t get rid of room modes. You may tame them, but that’s all.
And below 100 Hz the problems grow and are extremely difficult to solve.

The perfect room, or nearly perfect, is called headphones :smiley:

2nd But…

Speaker’s design massively influences its own frequency response (within a room).
E.g. a rear ported speaker, depending on the port depth and diameter, will fire a certain frequency range to the front wall which will then bounce back with a certain delay. That will cause dips or peaks, depending on listening position and speaker placement.

You then have laminated/round front ports, sealed boxes, multiple boxes, pistons, membranes, etc…

See my point?

Choosing a speaker design is choosing a problem.

A nicely sized/shaped and treated room, will accommodate any speaker.

But all speakers come with different problems. That’s why choosing a pair of speakers is matter of taste, mostly (usually, but not always, within a price range).

There is a lot of information out there, college books, AES publications, and youtube videos that try to make the problem easily understable.

You seem to have done a nice job yourself at correcting your room. With a great effect I suspect :smiley:

I have to admit on all the occasions I have heard the Utopias…they are not my cup of tea … I am more of a PMC guy… They seam very cold and sterile … but conversely they appear to convey allot of detail…

So far, the one thing that I cannot compromise on is sibilance. When I auditioned for new speakers last year, this aspect was high on my list of things to avoid. The Fenestria was one such speakers with this issue on my test track. Using the same track, when I went to audition the Focal twice last year - all good. I was much impressed. Fast forward to now, this is the very nightmare I seek to avoid but somehow manifested itself in my system.

I am not using streaming to test the speakers although I have 2 units of SOTM with 10mhz reference clock input in the chain. I also have a rug in place for many years.

At the level you are at you should not have sibilence…your dealer should help here…in my experience emi is critical … cable management and ethernet loom issues… with your system your dealer should be falling overthemselves to help you. Indeed I think Naim and Focal would be dissapointed if this were not the case… The dealer should be experienced enough to advice if you have a room issue…

hello, I have the opposite problem. i just bought the sopra 2. great mids and highs, the highs are not pointed at all. instead, not with all the pieces, but with some pieces I find that when you go down to the low frequencies sometimes the bass is a bit swollen. I hope that after the running in the situation will improve. my room is also treated. I hope the upgrade from 250dr to 300 dr poets benefits the sopra 2.

1 Like

That sounds like room interaction low down…a better amp will give you more control but I am not sure it will fix it…

the room already has an acoustic treatment. and before I had speakers with very similar characteristics. anyway I wait to finish running in and then let’s see what happens.

Read again the post by Thomas above, that I quoted in your other thread :slight_smile: Room treatment cannot fix room modes in the bass, just dampen them at best. A different speaker may excite the room differently.

As mentioned, a better amp might give more control and improve it, but if caused by a room mode, any amp that outputs sound at this frequency will excite it. Also consider that some members in various threads reported that, in their setups, a better amp seemed to put more energy into the room at the problematic frequencies, making bass issues worse.

There is no need to redo the room treatment either, but do play with speaker position etc. It might just be the case that the Focals need to be placed differently in the room.

unfortunately I cannot play with the position of the speakers. if after running in the problem persists, I will have to understand if it is possible to intervene in some way with a different treatment. even before i had this problem but it was solved with the treatment. the speakers now have about 30 hours of work, but I have the impression that compared to the first few hours the situation has improved slightly. I can do nothing but wait.

Letting them run in before changing anything is certainly a good idea

2 Likes

:ok_hand::pray:

Sometimes it’s just a few centimeters in positioning that can make a difference. Maybe you can accommodate that