No, it is not. They’ve been playing in my garage, day and night for 8 days before moving them back in the house. So about 200 hours. The sound DID change.
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I agree. The PMCs go through quite a transformation. They are barely listenable when brand new and certainly need to grilles on to tame the top end. Then they bloom. The harshness goes and the grilles can come off and they really sing.
And yes, they are very fast.
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Speakers if brand new do ‘break in’ as the cone surrounds flex, reaching operational suppleness after several 10s to 100s of hours. I’m not sure it applies much to tweeters with their miniscule movement, but perhaps it does.
But it is indeed also amazing how your ears can acclimatise.
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I had a pair of Twenty.23s I went through this with and the initial harsh trebble. Then went to Twenty5.23s and had to do it all over again. Those were damaged in transit so after running them in, the replacement pair arrived and I had to start all over again. That definitely wasn’t a case of acclimatisation to an unfamiliar speaker. The top end is definitely rough on fresh new PMCs.
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I have had my Twenty5.23’s for a few years now and they are fantastic, they were not the speakers I thought I would come home with but I am a definate PMC convert. In my system they provide a tight but natural sound. One tweak that did really supprise me was the addition of Gaias to mine. I bought them on a whim as they were on offer and they turned out to be the best vfm upgrade yet. My PMCs sit on carpet over a suspended floor and the Gaias are used with carpet spikes. The effect was to tighten everything up especially the bass which I was not expecting. Well worth a try once the PMCs are fully run in.
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Hi @Dan.S
really glad you’re enjoying your PMC speakers. The tweeters do have a harsh glare/sheen that completely disappears after a proper run in and the bass tightens up. This is not a question of ears acclimatising. I swapped in my pair of brand new 25.23s with a well run in demo pair that I had been using for a month so I could clearly hear the difference, which was striking. More than any piece of equipment, ‘speaker run in’ is absolutely a thing! The 25.23s are cracking speakers and a brilliant match for Naim.
I agree with you about the Dynaudio Heritage Specials being a lovely speaker too - they look and sound stunning. I just think I would miss a bit of bottom end with them in my room.
You are doing a wise thing re-directing your money to a power supply. I have read lots of comments about how transformative the 555DR is with your set up and the 25.23s will easily be able to let you hear the significant uplift in the sound it will bring. Great stuff.
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Hi. Definitely agree, I have the same speakers, also on Gaias. Perfect match for my SN3.
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They definitely worked for me on my suspended floor. For the money they were worth taking a chance and buying online I had the option to return them. It took only a few seconds to decide they were staying. As is typical with this type of upgrade you get mixed reports so trying is the only way of finding out in your scenario. There seems to be a lot more positive outcomes reported so it persuaded me to give them a go.
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We have suspended floor too. My dealer let me have them on sale or return whilst installing my Hi Cap DR
To be honest, significant firming up of bass and a wider soundstage. Look nice too
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My system evolved through a series of Naim and PMC upgrades. The two brands work really well for my ears.
I had to downsize my 500 DR system to a Nova last year, but I could not part with my Fact 12s as I was hooked on their great sound and imaging. I use Gaia 3s on a suspended floor.
While the Nova does a fair job of driving them, they are under performing. Bass control, speed, and imaging have all suffered with the departure of the 500 system. Even so, I still enjoy them. The PMC sound is still there, just not as much as I know they can do. SL speaker cables also help to get the most out of the Nova.
The Gaia 3s improved bass and mid-range, so certainly worthwhile. Installing them correctly was worth the time and effort. It took me a few tries and the sound improved once I had them correctly setup.
I will eventually downsize the Fact 12s, but my adventures with Naim and PMC are far from over. Once you’re hooked on the PMC sound, it’s tough to let go!
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That sounds unfortunate and sad, and
this even more so. My commiserations with whatever is forcing something you clearly aren’t doing out of personal preference.
However your comments about the Facts with Nova fit with my expectation based on my view of speaker vs source importance - it will be interesting to learn what you go for eventually, as I think of the F12s as a good speaker if one had to downsize because they are physically relatively small…
Your des
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I think home furnishings - when you have your room setup will make a big difference. Also these speakers will take a few weeks to sound right - so what you are getting now will improve significantly in all areas…so keep them playing and enjoy!
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I strongly suspect that downsizing from Fact.12 to something like Twenty5.23 would sound better on a Nova. Easier to drive. Less revealing (but still very high quality).
What I call the “downgrade to upgrade” route. Often the case with speakers vastly ahead of the source and amp. Less is definitely more in some scenarios and I expect this is one.
I bet some of the bass snap comes back with a lesser PMC speaker here.
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I remember fact 12 have 84 db sensitivity, quite hard for the nova, while twenty5 23 86.6, much easier to drive for your Nova
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I am enjoying NDS, chord indigo din,282, 250dr, WH phantom, pmc twenty5 26 combo.
I think the soundstage of twenty5 26 is great and sound is pleaseant, detailed, never harsh, analogue like. really appreciated. bass are present and effective even if not booming, a good compromise among hi fi and natural involving sound. mid high are perfect.
anybody has similar set up?
ps I am using basic little bear PS, wondering how will sound good when I will move to Naim XPS
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Sensitivity is no indication of ease or difficulty driving, only how loud for a given power, 84dB/W only telling you that the speaker’s maximum achievable volume will be 3-4dB quieter than a more typical 87-88dB/W
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I’m not so strong on technical side, what I can tell you is that I had SN2 before 282 + 250 and the feeling was that it was not enough fof the twenty5 26, they were sounding but not expressing their full potential, it was like something was missing in the delivery.
even at low volumes the speakers sounded like not fully controlled, it was not just question of volume, also of quality and presence.
when I moved to 282 + 250 everything changed, sound became much more full and controlled. theoretically nova, SN2 and 250 dr have all the same power, in practice they are all different, I think it is due to current (Ampere) of the transformer and gain of the preamplifier. you can of course judge yourself: if you are happy with them than is fine, if you perceive something is missing, than evaluate to change speakers
Hi Gruido, I know of a couple of 25/26s owners, who have not experienced managing to fully control the bass output of said speakers. This could of course be an unsuitable room response, but I’m a firm believer in the fact, that no amplifier can be too big for a pair of quality floorstanders. There is something lovely about hearing an amp gripping a pair of speakers by the scruff of the neck.
I would love to hear mine driven by the full Statement, but bar a Lottery win, that’s never going to happen. Never mind….
Enjoy Peter
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Now that is indeed likely to be the amp not able to adequately control the speakers - possibly the speakers have an impedance curve that provides a bit much of a challenge, and/or the speaker’s own damping is such that greater electrical damping is required by the amp. (My previous post was simply correcting your highlighting of sensitivity as factor of significance.)
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