Native FLAC via iRadio?

It’s streaming FLAC currently. I never stopped for me but maybe I missed some down time.

I can see (and hear, LOL)

https://maggie.torontocast.com:8076/flac

I just added these stations to the list:
image

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Another update to config.txt please :wink: ? Merci ! which incidentally if you just host that file on GH, it could be of use for many members as it contains tested URLs to a bunch of HiDef stations. I listen to Fréquence and was searching for its links

No problem. I just added the latest config.txt to the GH repo as an asset.

JB Radio2 in flac has been very flakey. It has been on then off then on then off.
Better wait and see.
see thread Best internet radio anyone? - #254 by Engine

I also read that JB Radio 2 is in the process of converting their mp3s to flac. I don’t see any added value in doing this.

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JB Radio2 (Canada) is streaming in mp3, aac and flac :-
mp3/320 https://maggie.torontocast.com:8076/mp3
aac/320 https://maggie.torontocast.com:8076/aac
flac https://maggie.torontocast.com:8076/flac

and all are currently available!

Flac is obviously the best quality that many broadcasters are now aiming for.
Mp3 and aac offer lower bandwidth and may be more suitable for mobile devices etc.

There also apparently an issue with some clients which consider a change of metadata in the stream as being the end of streaming, and will stop playback.

This may well not be a problem for Naim streamers, but my RPi based streamers certainly are affected!

The AAC stream is OK though, and they do play music that I like :grin:

Aac works for me but not the flac stream.
Set up through innuos sense.
Flac has worked previously.

Try this one? http://158.101.168.33:9000/jb_radio_2
This gives you the PCM stream from the OggFlac

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Yes, that works nicely. I presume this is one from your App which strips out the metadata?

Nice one!

It works, but yes, no metadata.
Can live with it though.
Thanks Kurt!

I rely on ffmpeg to unwrap the OggFlac envelop and convert it to WAV so the Naim can eat it. When metadata is involved, or the conversion goes wrong, or it doesn’t show-up. In addition to that, it also depends on how the metadata is added to the OggFlac. So, for now, to avoid issues, I decided to strip off all metadata before converting it. The trade off is indeed no metadata. Having said that, as things are evolving, I keep an eye on this on a regular basis.

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The wav conversion is interesting. I thought the Sense app was confused lol.

I thought the iRadio input would accept flac, as the UPnP input does. So, initially I wrote an OggFlac unwrapper in order to take the Flac out of the OggFlac envelope and send it to the Naim. This didn’t work. After spending nights on trial and error, it looks the only way was to convert it to a WAV. I contacted Naim on this, but never got any confirmation, even not a response.

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What’s the content type field set for non HiDef stations that you likely checked the bitstream and that work with gen 1? Curious if it’s the ogg container that isn’t supported or rather ogg/flac as you demonstrated.

In the (very detailed) manual, you mention that Naim drops the stream when it encounters a content type field set to either “application/ogg” or “audio/ogg”. I wonder if any other combination of audio/ogg with a lossy codec (aac) works on gen1. In any case, it wouldn’t change anything !

@aboulfad, to be 100% correct, it’s not that the Gen1 devices don’t accept native flac. I used Wireshark to analyse the bitstream amongst MinimServer running on my laptop and the Naim when using the UPnP input. I noticed that when something with “dlna-xxxx” is in the metadata, the Naim accepts audio/flac, but not for the iRadio input.

I tried with MP3 on the iRadio input and this works fine.

I also tried to force the metadata so that it looks the Naim would receive an mp3 or wav stream, but I send it a flac stream. This doesn’t work either. :slight_smile: I guess that based on the content type tag, the appropriate codec is called, which obviously fails if you send it another type of bitstream.

So basically, for a native flac (not OggFlac) all logic is there, it’s just a matter of allowing this codec for the iRadio input. Getting a native flac out of an OggFlac envelope is not rocket science either; you can find some experimental version in my source code.

If Naim software would have been open sourced, a lot of things would now be crystal clear instead of guesses, and I would have saved a huge number of hours, I spent on debugging via trial and error. :wink:

I didn’t update the docs, so this is somewhat outdated with regards to the structure of the config file. I believe the structure is quite self explanatory. However, the key concepts and the core logic haven’t changed.

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thanks - I wonder what does Tidal hifi or plus plan use as Internet media content type and whether HiFi lossless streams work on Gen1 naim devices. Tidal uses FLAC for HiFi plan so it’s an interesting data point. I just bought an QB2, many years ago Naim had 3 mo Tidal trial, I’ll check :slight_smile:

Tidal lossless (HiFi) → audio/flac …

HTTP/1.1 206 Partial Content
Content-Type: audio/flac
Content-Length: 16867595
Connection: keep-alive
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 16:09:23 GMT
Access-Control-Allow-Headers: Origin
Access-Control-Allow-Methods: GET, HEAD, OPTIONS
Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
Cache-Control: max-age=31536000
ETag: "xxxx
Last-Modified: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 14:08:54 GMT
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Range: bytes 0-16867594/16867595
X-Cache: Hit from cloudfront
Via: 1.1 47xxx.cloudfront.net (CloudFront)
X-Amz-Cf-Pop: YUL62-C2
X-Amz-Cf-Id: xxx
Age: 615355

fLaC..."........8.```