Well, we’ll see if the MinimServer transcoding works , but if my hunch is right, and there is a 2GB file limit, then this should also fail.
OK, I’ve just done the following test:
Original FLAC (24-bit 192 kHz) converted via dBPowerAmp to:-
- AIFF (2.3 GB)
- WAV (2.3 GB)
The result? Same problem as before with the AIFF file, “Cant Play” shown on the ND5 XS - but the 2.3 GB WAV did play fine. So clearly Naim have a bug in their AIFF support (and/or they need to clearly state that larger files won’t play - be interesting to see if they deign to respond to my support e-mail).
Thanks for the various advice on this forum: a great resource! Now I have to figure out how to get MinimServer to transcode FLAC to WAV - there doesn’t seem to be a GUI for this; is there some config file that needs to be edited?
As I mentioned earlier, it doesn’t matter whether I try to play this from the MinimServer or directly from the USB stick plugged into the front USB Port - I get exactly the same error, so it would appear to be a Naim bug.
Re transcoding: presumably I edit minimserver.config ?
To I need to add something like:
stream.transcode = flac:wav
or
minimserver.stream.transcode = flac:wav ???
You need the minimstreamer extension to minimserver
Once installed you get another few options in the System tab in the minimwatch properties where you specify the transcoding options
Thanks!
I used to frequently get “Can’t Play Track Skipped” on an NDX with high-res files. Naim support said it was due to the local network, which I never quite believed. Turning the NDX off and back on always fixed the issue. Those error messages have been removed from the app over the last few years. Not yet had the issue on an NDX2 and hope I never do! 
Same reported here … but not for naim.
I also found a few references to suggest that 2 gb is the max file size for aiff.
Eg https://support.apple.com/kb/PH13509?locale=en_GB
Others to suggest it is 4 gb. Perhaps some software still considers 2 gb to be the max.
1 Like
Thanks, Robert, that’s helpful. It would appear then that AIFF is limited to 2 GB and WAV to 4 GB. In that case, I’ll have to look into using FLAC and figuring out how to transcode to WAV.
This has been an interesting experience - many thanks for all your helpful feedback!
Hi @d.c.palmer
You have fuelled my audio geek side on this subject
When AIFF was created about 28 years ago Apple created a chunk based format where each chunk was a ‘Long Int’ - so back then an Int was assumed 16bits on Apple hardware and if you made it a long then that will be the dizzy heights of a 32bit signed value.
To quote the format spec:
TYPE CommonChunk =
RECORD
ckID: ID; {‘COMM’}
ckSize: LongInt; {size of chunk data}
numChannels: Integer; {number of channels}
numSampleFrames: LongInt; {number of sample frames}
sampleSize: Integer; {number of bits per sample}
sampleRate: Extended; {number of frames per second}
END;
Move fwd many years later and that Long Int starts to become a serious limitation.
a) Why use a signed value on something that is ultimately unsigned. It’s not like there will be ever -100 samples to play.
b) 2GB is in practice not a huge file by modern streaming standards.
For the dirty details of the format based on 1996 docs see:
As an added twist some software apps have decided that the signed 32bit limitation should be redefined and they may as well assume it’s unsigned … so 2GB limit becomes a 4GB limit. The CODEC’s in the older products stick to the original spec and hence it fails to play if fed one of these mutant AIFF’s.
Best way to go? Maybe consider chopping the file down into n’th files and hence its a more manageable size + easier to skip to the section wanted, get correct meta etc.
Best regards
Steve Harris
Software Director
Naim Audio Ltd.
1 Like
Dear Steve,
Many thanks for your - definitive - response: greatly appreciated! This all makes perfect sense, but presumably WAV has similar limitations - I believe its internal format is comparable to AIFF. Am I right to assume that WAV uses unsigned 32-bit integers (as opposed to the signed integers in AIFF) ?
A few thoughts and lessons learned from this saga:-
1. Clearly-State File Size Limitations
Please forgive me if this has already been done, but I think it would help if Naim gave a maximum file size for the various formats it supports (i.e., “supports AIFF - up to 2 GB, WAV - up to 4 GB, etc.”). This may be a moot point at the moment, but as recording technology progresses beyond 24-bit 192 kHz - as I hope it does - more people are going to “hit the buffers” in terms of supported file sizes, and this question might become more common.
2. Software Compliance
Software programs such as dBPowerAmp really ought NOT to be writing files larger than the software limit (2 GB for AIFF, 4 GB for WAV) !!!
3. Appropriate Track Lengths
This is an interesting one: record producers need to think carefully about how they index their music. In the “Classical” world it’s not unusual to have very long, uninterrupted stretches of music (stretching to several hours for some operatic works).
In the early days of CD there was the concept of “index points” which allowed individual “tracks” (which were supposed to be regions of continuous music) to be sub-indexed. I’m not sure if anyone supports this anymore (I have at least one recording - Marriner’s Philips recording of Haydn’s “The Seasons” - with index points), but it’s not something that’s amenable to digital downloads (currently - perhaps this will change?).
In the absence of “index points”, Steve suggests splitting longer works up into separate tracks, which seems eminently sensible. Many recordings already do this: another Mahler example is Karajan’s 1982 live recording of the 9th symphony (said, by the ageing music critic Stuckenschmit to be not just the greatest performance of this work, but the greatest performance of any piece of music he had ever heard) has its leisurely 28-minute first movement divided into 8 tracks - whereas the subject of this thread, Ivan Fischer’s recording of the 3rd symphony on Channel Classics, has its 32-minute first movement as a single track.
There are downsides to this approach, however. It’s moving away from the original concept of what makes a “track” a “track”; it makes it more cumbersome to distribute - and download - if individual movements are split into separate tracks; and perhaps most significantly, it requires music players to provide flawless “gapless playback”. Sadly, many don’t - including the media player in my car, which trips up the music with audible long gaps between “tracks” - definitely NOT what one wants to hear in earth-shattering Mahlerian (or Brucknerian or Wagnerian) tones.
Back to the more mundane: I have, for now, followed the generous advice of other forum members and upgraded my MinimServer/Streamer software so that it can transcode FLAC files to WAV. I left dBPowerAmp running for a marathon 4 hours yesterday afternoon, with all 8 processor cores of my MacBook Pro working flat out converting AIFF tracks to FLAC. The end result was more free space on the server and a new, backup repository for FLAC files to be played in the car (which is happy to accept 24-bit 192 kHz FLAC, but won’t play WAV or AIFF).
Thanks again for all the comments and feedback - I hope this is useful to others too.
Best wishes,
David
1 Like
Hi David,
RE: WAV - yes. Microsoft / IBM used unsigned 32bit values so a chunk could be 4GB, rather than 2GB.
RE: Files that bend the specification
Totally. File format specifications are there for a good reason so when various software writes technically non compliant files then it just creates havoc. Files may play on one system, not another, who’s to blame etc etc.
RE: Lessons learnt
Naim are currently doing a public facing knowledge base. This would be an ideal subject to write about as stuff like this does come up now and then and it’s good to have a definitive answer. I’ll raise a proposal to the support team.
Best
Steve
hi, I have other issue from ‘files universe’ - is there any manual/tutorial/inf re how to deal with library of files I created on uniti star by ripping cds to be able to use it on other naim streamers?
My new nd5xs2 is not recognizing the hdd as being a valid library 
How should I move/treat the files to have it playable on nd5?
Ahhh, that takes me back! I think it’s a great shame index points never caught on, though I suspect they’re more useful in classical. I have a CD which includes Britten’s Young Person’s Guide to the Orchestra in one track with index points indicating each variation, which is instructive if you’re listening carefully. On my CD5XS the index number is displayed with the track number, but on my old Meridian CD transport, you could start it playing at an index point. AFAIK they’re not used these days, I guess downloads are partly responsible for that.
Roger
1 Like
An advantage of index points is that they are designed to be embedded within a track and don’t disrupt the music flow.
I had an interesting discussion with Jared Sacks - the multi-award-winning producer and engineer behind Channel Classics (responsible for that spectacular Maher 3 which prompted this thread). I had suggested that they consider splitting long movements into shorter tracks, but Mr Sacks pointed out that some DACs give an audible “click” when the track changes, which is undesirable. Since they are focused on ultimate audio quality, this was deemed an unacceptable option. Clearly, this would have been a perfect use of index points!
So, back to Naim: clearly we are going to be facing larger files in the future, and it’s only a matter of time before the 4 GB WAV limit will be breached. What’s Naim going to do then?
My suggestion is to tidy up the electronics so that FLAC can be read without any deleterious side effects. Other manufacturers seem to have done this, so come on Naim! Over to you, @Stevesky …
What deleterious (causing harm or damage) effects are you referring to.
The fact that many Naim users claim that “WAV sounds better than FLAC” !!!
With the so called legacy streamers their is an opinion is that WAV does sound slightly better than FLAC; however, that opinion is not held by all.
Whatever, when FLAC is transcoded to WAV, the streamer is then receiving a WAV stream so that resolves any real or imagined issues.
With the new platform streamers the consensus is that there is no audible difference between any PCM format.
Yes Mike, but the upshot of this thread is that we’re getting really close to the maximum 4GB file size of WAV, so any transcoding to WAV is going to hit the buffers at the streamer side.
Good to hear that the newer streamers are able to take FLAC in their stride though.
Clearly, the advice from now on should be to avoid WAV (files or transcoding) if one is serious about pushing the boundaries of resolution/sampling rate for larger works.
The 4GB limit might be so, maybe not, lets wait to hear if Steve Harris has some input on that.
My question to you was only regarding your concern over the “deleterious” effects of FLAC.