I recently used the Qobuz desktop [Mac] app via UPnP direct to ND 555 and was very surprised how good the sound was. The music I was listening to was the new Mahler 3 from F-X Roth and the new Sibelius symphonies set from Paavo Jävri. Great dynamics plus lots of intricate detail.
Many thanks for that pointer. I was completely unaware of the UPnP beta. I’ve downloaded the desktop app and will give it a whirl tomorrow. Do you know if it can be controlled by the IOS app as a remote?
I might well have tried it that way had I known in advance, but I’ve got enough boxes kicking around the place now. The NAS is brand new and only for music, quad core and has a dedicated SSD drive just for Roon. It’s certainly responsive enough.
That said I am still experimenting with Roon and have found a few ways to improve on the SQ that I’ll natter on about once I’m sure how they work together.
On a convenience level I do prefer the way the Qobuz app points you to its download store when it can’t offer something there on streaming - I’ve found quite a lot of stuff that interests me seems to fall into that category.
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Twonky definitely works much better without anything else running, It didn’t at all like the presence of the Qnap media server (neither did Minim and possibly Roon), which is sonically not much to write home about.
Now that I know this (and have uninstalled and disabled the Qnap media server - you have to do both, I discovered) I shall run the comparisons again.
Hello Bart
I was about to pull the trigger on a Nucleus to run Roon, get better organized, but primarily to Stream Hi Rez Qobuz to my ND555. However, based on the Naim and the Roon Forum, got a little put off. I currently only have Naim Core and stream Tidal. Have you tried the Qobuz Hi Rez to the ND555 SQ?
My collection is small, so the organizing part of Roon is nice, but not important at this time. I don’t want to tie into my laptop to try the Room core. I do have a iPad mini that would run the Remote Roon just fine.
Bailyhill
What NAS did you get ?
A sentiment we all share! I have a little rack tucked away in a corner of a remote room - my “server rack” and it’s far from the hi fi. I had room for the Nucleus and other than the “who needs one more box” issue it wasn’t too burdensome.
Qnap HS-453DX
Well, the experiments continued.
The Qnap comes with various things pre-installed that run in the background, none of which serve any purpose for me, so I uninstalled or shut them down to get a quieter NAS environment. I have now also given good listens to the Asset, Minim, Roon and Twonky servers again, this time shutting down all the other servers each time.
Giving them this quieter environment has definitely improved their performance while simultaneously narrowing the gaps between them, but they still retain distinct sonic signatures and I still prefer Minim, although I can understand other people having other preferences. Twonky is a little fuller yet simultaneously less detailed and articulate in the bass and lacks some treble clarity. Asset is between the two. For voice and classical instruments I prefer Minim. Twonky does some cute things with electronica, with interesting separation artefacts that don’t, however, work well with acoustic instruments. The Roon server (and I am talking solely about playing ripped files here) is closest to the Asset. It’s much better than before, but still not entirely satisfying (some of the hi-res streaming is spectacular another matter). So I am going to try a Roon Nucleus+, being dropped off on home demo Thursday morning to see if it can improve on the NAS. The spec will only be slightly higher, but it should be a cleaner device. Whether that will make a difference to the sound I have no idea, but considering how practically everything seems able to influence digital replay despite all the tricks in the ND555, I can’t resist giving it a whirl.
I did also try the Mac OS Qobuz streaming direct via UPnP o the ND555 which allows higher resolution files and works nicely and sounds good, but no longer better than via Roon. I may do a few more comparisons…
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Michael
I have demoed a Nucleus+ and it works fine in all aspects, however it is very seriously overpriced for what it is. I ended up getting a Roon Rock server with exactly the same spec as the Nucleus+ for less than a third of the price and it was delivered very promptly with Roon software already installed so plug and play in exactly the same way as the Nucleus+.
What really staggers me about Roon marketing is that they have an offering in the Nucleus+ at £2500 and then a page on their site (google Roon Rock) which lists the same Roon approved kit components on the web at c£600 with the software free to download. Ok you have to build it but given that prebuilt with software installed is only a little more then it does not seem inspired marketing to me.
Google ‘fanless-roon-rock-music-server-inside tech’ if you want to have a look.
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I used Qobuz app via UPnP a week or two ago, I think, it was from a laptop. I can’t remember now if I brought an iPad into the equation or not as a remote.
Your experiments are interesting to follow, so many roads …
Qobuz via bubble upnp on a QNAP NAS controlled by Lumin app on the ipad is very nice for all formats Ive found. I was listening to some Joan Baez last night in preparation for seeing her perform live on Friday and the whole setup really played to the ND555’s strengths. Her voice was amazing. The acoustic guitar was beautiful.
Hi, Im a little confused. Did you use Qobuz via chromecast?
For the record I found exactly the opposite - the Minim was closed-in, cozy and lacking in dynamic expression whereas the Twonky was an open-window to the music with great scale and low-bass dynamics.
I felt that Minim sat-on the sound and it by comparison to Twonky sounded rather compressed. I did like the mid-band of the Minim but the smoothed-over smaller sound it gave in my system compared to the Twonky has currently ruled it out for now.
The Twonky is not perfect and I understand all the descriptions stated but it still gives the best insight into the music and best micro-timing I’ve heard.
I do think this is a system interaction - in that Twonky can sound overblown, but can also work rather well when the system handles the presented signal. I had to do a fair bit of work with my system to get the deep bass from becoming overblown - especially when I adopted the S1 Pre which really extended the bass and initially caused problems until I put some space around the Active 500 supplies which removed all that and gave me a clean bass. Without doing that I’d imagine the Minim would sound better in my system.
I still find it rather amazing that the music server (which is installed software that just manages access to the stored music data on the physical Server) makes any real difference at all when the same bits are buffered into the ND555 - but it does and I expect at some point there will appear a server even better than Twonky and Minim - perhaps a further development on Minim - that does what I like about both. If I could have the dynamic expression and clarity (in my system) of the Twonky with the mid-range intimacy of the Minim I’d be very please to have that.
DB.
No, I never use Chromecast. I selected DNLA/UPnP, then chose ND 555 from the devices listed.
qobuz via chromecast gave me very poor, unstable results.
It’s working better now, but the UPnP stream from the Mac App (still in Beta) is better…
Yes, it’s incredible, isn’t it? I expected to look at them solely in terms of how they handle metadata tags etc.
I’m not trying to do down your preference for Twonky. I suspect we are responding to similar things in different ways for different music. Twonky certainly has the broadest and possibly deepest soundstage and that is very beguiling. It also has a nice dynamic warmth. And I can relate to you finding Minim smaller and shut in by comparison. My problem is that I found the soundstage a matter of artefact rather than reproduction, strangest for me in all acoustic playing from small groups through to grand orchestra. But my biggest gripe, on the music I value most, is a lack of detail in instrumental timbre: guitar string textures, the rasp in cello and double bass, the weird variety of brass tones - it’s a little flatter there and also lacks in attack, very noticeable on cymbal, rim hits and snare drums for example.
That said, these are relatively subtle differences and the only useful message for anyone else is to do the comparison.
Twonky is also particularly sensitive to anything else running on the system. It suffers if there are any other music servers running and equally if Java (needed for Minim) is running. Clarity is much improved when everything is shut down. The Roon server is equally fussy, indeed more so, since the improvement between my first audition and now is massive. It’s much better now, possibly my second only to Minim. I’ve even tried to amend my original post, but the timeframe for corrections is over.
I will listen wider and occasionally revert to hear how Twonky and maybe even Asset handle a given piece. I hope to have a good handle on all this by the time the Nucleus arrives on Thursday. Not sure how I feel about the Roon software overall, though…
I respect that you are doing the tests and reporting what your hear and prefer. I’ve also found from my own experience that what sounded best in a Passive system can change to another preference in an Active one. I also preferred the Minim in a passive system - so much so that I was rather surprised that I was preferring the Twonky when I first home-demoed, which I did not at first want to.
I really do not find any problems with clarity of harmonic structures with the Twonky but it is a bigger sound that does not fit everywhere very well perhaps. I went Active to get rid of the feeling of restriction or being contained or sat-on so perhaps anything that has a bit of that effect goes against what I’m looking for.
I also do not think it is the last word on music server software, so I’m keeping an open mind ahead to anything better that comes along. But also perhaps there is no ‘best’ and an aspect of personal taste enters, as it seems to do with cables and other items.
DB.
Just keep giving your impressions, not everybody has to agree, it’s your own ears …, that’s what counts…