Not using Roon and only Ethernet to control the Zenith I don’t have network activity introducing ‘noise’. Just USB to spdif with a good converter.
Phil
Not using Roon and only Ethernet to control the Zenith I don’t have network activity introducing ‘noise’. Just USB to spdif with a good converter.
Phil
Thanks Peder and DB. Everything makes a difference it would seem. Recently when trying out some new speakers my dealer observed that the Ethernet from the wall to the switch was running the wrong way round. We scoffed as this cable carries no musical signal. We all heard the difference when he turned it around though
Maybe the seller price I saw was on the high side - I’ll look again. My Dealer does not stock the AQ Diamond - from what I understand but I’ll check. I’ll try things for sure.
The Vodka is still in run-in as presently after about a week it has gone from captivating to the total opposite of no connection to the music. It depends where it ends-up so I’ll see if I can keep it a few more days to get to final decision, but I’m missing my Cinnamon which was always beautiful and insightful. I normally have a lot of problems with run-in though - I like things to remain stable.
Looking at pictures of the Diamond it has a ‘dielectric bias system’ bulge thing with a button and light - what is that all about?
DB.
i found on google a review on the DBS system on audioquest diamond cables . Dielectric bias system. You will find it easily i guess.
Technical review, so i don’t really understand well, specially in english…
Darke Bear,…I put an explanation from the constructor himself.
There was a picture too, but it could not be copied.
If I perceive this text correctly,…it may take up to two weeks for the cable to “set itself”
I have three Vodkas and one Diamond,…I didn’t take time,but at least a week it took for Vodka to “start singing”.
But I’ve never tried the “wrong direction”, wondering if the positive you are experiencing with “wrong direction”,…persists after a two-week “Burn in”.
Frenchrooster,…I borrowed your image .
"
The patented Dielectric Bias System (US Pat 7,126,055) is a simple,elegant solution to one of cable’s most vexing performance challenges.
A highly misunderstood area of cable performance is the subject of cable run-in, sometimes (inaccurately) referred to as “break-in”.
”Break-in” properly applies to one-way mechanical phenomena, such as a motor or a loudspeaker surround.
Cables and capacitors do not “break-in”, rather their “dielectric forms,” meaning that it takes time for the dielectric material to adapt to a charged state.
This process is quite audible and explains the significant improvement heard in electronics, loudspeakers and cables as signal is applied over a period of time.
It has long been noted that cables (and all audio components) sound better after having been left turned-on for a number of days.
It has also been noted that once turned off, the component or cable slowly returns to its original uncharged state.
For many music lovers, this means that they are almost never hearing their cables in their optimum state.
AudioQuest’s founder and chief designer, William Low, explains the Dielectric-Bias System:
“DBS puts all of a cable’s dielectric into a comparatively high voltage DC field … continuously from the time the cable is terminated.
The exceptionally simple design uses a wire down the middle of the cable, which is simply an extension of a battery’s anode.
This wire is attached to negative (-) of a DBS battery pack, and nothing else.
It is not in the signal path and has no interaction with the signal.
Depending on the model of interconnect (analog or digital) or speaker cable, an existing foil “shield” is used as the DBS anode by connecting it to positive (+) of the DBS battery pack.
The negative side of a battery is nothing; it’s just an empty reservoir.
Again, there is no interaction with signal flow and no extra connections are introduced into the signal path.”
The benefit of maintaining a bias on the dielectric at a substantially higher voltage than is ever achieved through normal use is dramatic.
Even a cable, which has the loudest music or pink noise continually traveling through it, never has a fully formed dielectric.
The insulation on a conductor is in the path of a signal‘s magnetic field.
A perfect cable would conduct at the speed of light. As this is not possible, specifications for high bandwidth cables commonly include a number for “propagation delay.“
The specification is a percentage of the speed of light.
Audio does not have a problem with propagation delay.
In fact, almost no signals have a problem due to propagation delay …the specification is an acknowledgment that the insulation is acting as a dielectric and is interfering with the signal transfer.
One might think of the absence of propagation delay as dropping a coin through air.
If a coin is dropped through water, there is a delay, if dropped in a barrel of oil, much more delay.
The problem with insulation on an audio conductor is that the signal’s magnetic field is slowed down by the insulation (dielectric).
The amount of delay is different for each frequency and for each amplitude.
The AudioQuest Dielectric Bias System significantly reduces non-linear phase errors two ways.
1…By keeping a constant electrostatic field on the insulation material, the molecules of the material are polarized, greatly reducing the misbehavior.
2…By saturating the material, the insulation cannot absorb new energy and therefore cannot release that energy delayed in time.
One of the facts of audio life, whether turning on a turned-off piece of electronics, or when AudioQuest assembles a new DBS cable is that it takes about two weeks before getting most of the benefit.
It takes time for the “dielectric to form.“ Evaluating the effectiveness of the DBS system requires a cable with its DBS system disconnected for two weeks to be compared with a cable that has had its DBS system attached for two weeks.
“I hope when you have the opportunity to experience AudioQuest DBS cables, that your response will be the same as mine when I put the first prototype in my system;… “Ahhh, thank you!”
/Peder🙂
Useful - thanks. I’ve discussed with my Dealer and he is happy for me to extend my home demo for a few more days or a week to see where the Vodka settles. I’m very mixed about it as for some times it really is an obvious yes and surprisingly good - another it leaves me totally cold and uninterested in the music and I could not use it if that is where it ends-up.
Sounds like a bad drink story - cold Vodka - shaken but not yet stirred.
I’ll persist to see where it gets to as if it runs-in to one of the good phases of what I’ve heard it is an exceptional Ethernet cable - again, I don’t think any of what I’m hearing is down to integrity of the digital signal but ‘something else’ - perhaps along the lines of what you posted which I’ll take a look at.
At this stage I value personal experience from people rather than emphatic Papal Bulls that it is impossible and don’t believe your lying ears.
The AQ Diamond the Dealer could get in for me to demo some time ahead too they say. They did not get on with it when they tried it a while back it seems, but perhaps it needs the run-in to come on-tune.
DB.
from what i read, the vodka has metal case noise dissipation and is 10% pure silver. The diamond has 3 layer carbon noise dissipation and is 100% pure silver.
In the end I audition to determine what works best, as I’m not entirely sure some of the Manufacturers themselves really know what is going on to impact perceived performance - but it does not make a good impression on your potential customer to say that, so you have to say something that may be close to a truth.
I think there is a dielectric effect in all the run-in - also a screening effect - a noise migration induced by the large voltage signals … unknown.
Naim went to an extreme to get the ND555 as good at rejecting all that sort of noise, but how low-level that final noise has to be compared to the dynamic range of the output Analogue signal as compared to the much larger digital voltages nearby means you can never be perfect.
Having said all this - the ND555 is a real gem of a source. Yes I’m finding ancillary cables and equipment have an impact but I’m not sure any of this would be audible in the same way with, say the NDS which I also had on home-trial a few years ago; compared to the ND555 it had a higher noise-floor that may have covered some of these effects.
With the ND555 the resolution into recordings is remarkable, but it also means getting the whole installation correct for best results with a revealing system.
DB.
Darke Bear,…Interesting If you can draw any conclusions that I have not done.
There are many here in Sweden who bought Vodka on my recommendations,everyone has experienced a musical improvement…BUT,it has varied.
If we have a scale of 1 to 10,…where 1 is no perceived improvement,.to 10 that is very,very much improvement.
Well,then the experience of musical improvement has been between 5 to 10 on the scale.
What It depends on has I pondered a lot on.
The Music-systems that this is tested on are…
Naim,.from entry level (Unitiqute2),up to top notch (active DBL).
Lejonklou’s largest system.
Linn…both their past systems and accurate,as well as Exact-system from intermediate level up to top notch (active 350 and active Komri).
Forgot…in two systems,.Vodka has not worked fully.
It was in Lejonklou’s system (he had Linn’s Klimax DS streamer),as well as in a Linn Exact-system at medium level.
In all other systems,…the musical improvement has been between 5 to 10.
Two have also mounted a Vodka in their LP12 when they purchased the riaa-stage Urika2…which sits inside the LP12.
But no one has yet tried the “wrong direction”, so I’ll send everyone an email about this and we’ll see if they experience the same thing as you.
What it is that makes the perceived difference varies,…yes that would have been interesting to be able to answer.
And…ALL of these systems are installed with “Attention To Detail”,so it’s absolutely not where the difference lies.
I’m just reporting my journey of what I try, how and what I find. It is no intent to run-counter to any other opinions - I may occasionally but not because that is what I want.
I agree the Vodka is in (your terms) 7-10 on your scale ‘wrong’ way, especially on first day. Plugged-in the ‘right’ way it dropped to negatives -1 or -2 meaning I did not like it.
After run-in some more I will try the ‘right’ way again - and against the AQ Cinnamon I was previously using.
The Vodka has a bigger more authoritative sound with more detail - but perhaps as it runs-in that detail has to be got right. I have similar issues with non-digital high-end cable run-in and it may be what I easy hear at low levels in music many don’t seem to value so much so - we are all different - I can’y (and don’t want to) turn-off how I hear things as that is just how it goes for me.
…also music preference enters-in - I like female vocals with higher-range expression.
Most of my friends prefer almost exclusively male vocal and darker-voiced female vocal, so the effects may vary.
DB.
Hey DB, do you run continuously your system. If yes, after 5 or 6 days, 100/ 150 hours, it should be good. For me, at least, it took this time.
Yes on all the time - and I listen to it a lot.
I have had the cable about - I think - 5 or 6 days and at times it does seem to deliver so perhaps it is close.
The variations are at the high-frequency-end and that is where low-level harmonic-structures are still changing with time.
DB.
Darke Bear,… Believe it or not,…but this you write,actually has a High Representative at Audioquest USA also said.
/Peder🙂
Well I haven’t posted for a long time as I was an early adopter of the ND555 and have been enjoying it immensely.
My good friend DB came to visit today and he had a listen and suggested we could get the system sounding even better, gleaned from his own experiences at home using his very revealing active system. He did the usual tweaks of minor adjustments to cable dressing and box positioning on the Fraim, just adjusting the sitting of the boxes not altering the shelf order or anything like that.
A little harshness on Cherish by Madonna was removed and it sounded fuller and better balanced. We then moved on to Vogue and DB suggested that we try reversing the True Signal Ethernet cable which runs between my Melco N1 and the ND555 as he had found using other manufacturer’s cable this improved things further.
So we duly swapped the cable around so that it was running in the opposite direction to the way the cable was marked. Well, I don’t pretend to understand why, but instantly everything seemed to snap into place, better bass control and a more natural ease of presentation. As the cable continued to settle, things improved for a good 30 mins or so and more slowly, but in a good way, for the rest of the five or so hour listening session we had. DB reckons it will improve further over the coming days as the cable settles down further.
Well, it was a free tweak and worth trying, if you don’t like what it does easy to go back to having the cable the “correct” way round. I had read earlier in the thread that DB liked what this did in the context of his system albeit with a different make of cable to mine, although he says that the effect was the same in my system as his.
No doubt he will comment when he gets home as he is travelling back as I type. An interesting day and I thank DB for imparting his wisdom and experience with the ND555 here.
A nice session Mike! The system is now sounding excellent - it began a bit ‘off’ from what I have come to expect from the smooth seamless ND555 presentation, so with Mike asking if the Ethernet reversal may work with his system I deployed my skills - which IMO amount to 'lets try it!
I thought it was immediately better and Mike was silent for a minute, possibly with incredulity before pronouncing it sounded better. Later Mikes wife also entered the room and commented that it was better - and later his daughter commented the the system had better bass - what had we done?
Why it works - I don’t know, but easy to try.
DB.
Interesting that its another brand of cable, i wonder are these companies applying directionality based on some measurement, rather than listening?
You may have a point there. It’s certainly worth trying.
I get’s time you open up a DB-Consulting for Audio Tuning, thanks for your insights in this field…
Did orientation matter on a basic CAT5e cable too?
There has been some speculation on Ethernet cable directionality here in the past. The idea was that shielded cables may have that shield connected to the metal body of the plug, perhaps at one end or the other. Or maybe both ends, or even none. Cat5e is usually unshielded, so any such directionality would not apply, and most regular, cheap Cat5e cables have plastic plugs.
Expensive audiophile cable brands never seem to divulge any information about this issue, despite invariably being sheilded, with metal plugs, and often a direction marker.
The possible effect of all this (speculatively) is that if the sockets at both ends also metal, and able to connect the shield to ground, there is potential for a ground loop. Also, if the shield picks up any electrical interference, that may couple into the connected device, possibly in a way that affects the sound.
All rather speculative, I admit, but until someone comes up with any other theory as to how network cables could be directional, that’s all I’ve got.