Gunnar,…Same here ,.and this is what has the greatest meaning,…“fine-tuning”.
And that also taking such a long time.
I,.and other knowledgeable here in Sweden usually say…
To install a “top-notch” music-system from scratch…Yes,.you can count on a year before it’s done.
And,.as soon as you change something in the system,…you may expect to make a small change in your fine-tuning.
So,.I suspect you’ve been doing this fine-tuning for a while .
Also saw in your profile that you have Chord Music between NDS and 552. There I am a little jealous,.I would like to hear Chord Music in my system.
But at the moment,.I/we are testing the importance of different contacts on the same powercable.
This is a new but exciting area for us.
But more about this in my “Cableoholic-thread”.
As you say,.Knowledge,Experience of traders in terms of installation…it seems to vary a lot…
Or if there is a shortage of time,.but to do more than check that the new product works in the system,…I really think you can demand.
I think so - they have run-in and changed a lot over the weeks all in a good direction. They begin a bit ‘wham-bang big impressive’ sounding …but a bit towards edgy at first. I have retained the Cinnamon as I really liked it and consider it a good reference, but the Vodka was obviously far better at presenting a larger more open perspective with details I’d not heard rendered the way I was hearing them.
I had reservations but these have gradually diminished on two counts: 1. Run-in has evened the presentation out and the bass is not now tending to over-powerful or the treble toward occasional hardness. 2. I’ve discovered it is extremely sensitive to installation in that it does not like to be touching the floor or another cable at all - the sound diminishes and loses some power and drive if it does.
The fact that it can have any of these effects at all, or that the Ethernet connection matters is a learning curve for me, but it now works very well and the ND555 and it seems to enrapture guest for hours in ways that I never had happen before - it gets later and they want to play ‘just another track’. My last session was with five of us and the range of music was extreme and it did Classical - Jazz - Rock - Metal… seems to have no preference.
Very pleased with the overall effect.
Although there are probably better matching components in terms of cables and other accessories for the ND555 I’m inclined to bottom-out the performance with my present set of items as they gel-together well.
The overall presentation balance is something people have to tune for their own system, as what works to mine may well be over-weighty or over-lean in another set-up.
The Bass in my system goes on forever down it seems now and finds a bottom low note with very low distortion and in-phase with its harmonics to present a big 3-D sound with fast bass, which can be a tough job from my experience over many years.
The Vodka did the bass better in terms of quantity and quality - but opens a bigger window lower to problems if you don’t have everything installed right.
Thanks for that very detailed reply. I am hoping to try some Vodka cables in the next few days and was just wondering whether in the end you might have found them more spectacular but the Cinnamon more involving.
I’ve very much been stumbling along a learning curve of my own in terms of what fine tunes the ND555 performance and have ended up with a very different set of ancillaries to what I imagined: now just the Roon Nucleus+ (having ditched the NAS as now trailing in noise floor, micro-dynamics, detail and tonal fidelity) which I am running with a Samsung EVO 960 internal SSD, currently Belden Cat5e cables from Designacable which took over a week to burn in, and a Cisco 2960 switch - all a 5m cable length away from the Fraim racks. Now I am just going to experiment with the Vodkas and possibly also some big “linear” regulated power supplies on the Nucleus and maybe even switch. So, it’s very helpful to hear that in the end you don’t feel there is anything that Vodka loses compared to what you immediately liked so much in the Cinnamon.
The Cinnamon was easier in that it did not, by comparison, aim as high and wide as the Vodka cable. In isolation and not having heard the Vodka, but having tried many commercial CAT5e, CAT6, CAT7 and a few HiFi cables I’d welcomed the Cinnamon as immediately better everywhere in terms of clarity, seamlessness and lower noise and general insight - I always had a big smile on my face in amazement of what I was achieving finally with the ND555 with that combo.
But Vodka was offered for demo - and I realised it was a big deal different in that what it did better was large ‘box upgrade’ better - not subtle at all, but it also was a tad brutal with it at first. Run-in and learning-curve with the Vodka was longer and I was not sure I’d live with it as I had no idea where it would end-up as it was my Dealer’s first cable and I was running it in.
I tried longer lengths of cable earlier with Cinnamon and 3m had the edge taken off it compared to 1.5m so settled on 1.5m lengths. My Melco sits so that I could use 0.75m runs, but I get the impression there is a sweet-spot length and shorter is not always better.
I get excellent results not having any switch between my ND555 and the Melco music server/database - I’d originally though I would have the data server in another room from the HiFi - in fact I do have a back-up NAS in another room but the identical music drawn from that sounds ‘ok’ but far lower clarity - in Vinyl terms like comparing an average MM cartridge against a good MC cartridge delivery - you clearly know which is better and it is not subtle.
Learning-curve indeed.
Knowing it should make no difference does not get me anywhere, so experiment determines my installation.
Not tried them yet, as Dealer did not have one to hand. Given the run-in journey I may try this at some point ahead later, as I’m wanting some stability for a bit now, but at some point it will happen. Poke me tomorrow to chat.
My Vodkas should be arriving tomorrow. I’ve got some silly fuses, too, on trial. The boxes in their little wires put me off the Diamonds a bit. Cackhanded fails to describe my deficiencies…
Give them more than a few days to bed-in and ensure they hang freely between the boxes. They have a strong ‘signature’ that should be immediately apparent with the ND555 of dynamic clarity and a big sound - but they can also begin sounding too big, over bass-heavy and full-blown with a hard edge which is exacerbated by the cable contacting other cables or the floor/wall/fraim.
I had to slightly pivot my fraim by a few degrees to allow all the cables to exit freely and just miss touching anything between the boxes. I put this off for ages but once I eventually did the work it was so much better I wish I’d done it a lot earlier - silly-better in my system.
The Vodkas are now very agile and fluid sounding and continuing to surprise and amaze me - or it is rather the whole combination with ND555, but the Vodkas are the recent addition. They have a ‘nothing held-back’ effect I particularly like in context of what I want with my Active set-up which handles that aspect and laps it up - but in some systems they may not work and be over-bearing so not to generalize on what works best in all cases.
When assembling a system you need to match the component signatures I find - and not ‘against’ each other to average them out but aligned with each other. Naim and others had in the past called this concept aligning a series of open windows to allow everything to flow unimpeded.
Many thanks for the tips. The main 5m cable from the Fraim to the desk where the switch and Nucleus are located is going to have to travel along the floor for some of its length. I may try and find a way of standing it off. But I can reposition the Switch to get the others simply hanging down.
I suggest try to avoid it running on hard surfaces - a carpet will work better than a hard floor.
I’d also then place a few (as few as possible) spacers to just lift it from contact with the floor.
…but the longer runs in another system may obey different rules so really plug and play and then tweak if you think it is not sounding right is my advice.
Very interesting discussion chaps. I have used a mixture of Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet leads for years, reserving my two Vodka leads for NAS/Server to switch and switch to NDS, and have always recognised the extra capability of the Vodkas.
I originally only used my UnitiServe for music serving duties but more recently acquired a QNAP HDD NAS primarily for back up but installed BubbleUPNP on it and find I now prefer the sound using the QNAP for music serving.
As I only have 2 Vodka ethernet leads, and one was on switch to NDS, I have just realised that I had the other Vodka from UnitiServe to switch and a Cinnamon from QNAP to switch. As I prefer the ‘sound’ of the QNAP I thought I would now put the Vodka from it to switch and put the Cinnamon from UnitiServe to switch. I have also taken the opportunity to ‘dress’ this Vodka lead.
I should also add that, as I like to keep my switch, NAS and Server away from my NDS (in a ventilated cupboard), my Vodka leads are rather long at 5m and 8m.
Will give the new configuration a listen this afternoon and let you know what I find.
Sorry to the OP for the diversion, but it does seem that ethernet leads do make a difference to the performance of both the NDS and ND555, something I have recognised for some time.
OK, I have listened to a few tracks from recently played CDs with my QNAP as server with Vodka from it to my Cisco 2960 switch (previously Cinnamon) and I am desperately trying to remain objective, as I believe I am hearing significant improvements with Vodka conducting the bits, instead of Cinnamon.
I hearing more clearly into the mix, others might describe this as better separation. More fine detail but not in overt manner, rather natural in fact. Bass goes a little deeper but no additional control down there unfortunately. It is probably asking a bit too much to expect an Ethernet cable to provide greater bass control though.
It is impossible to assess how much of this ‘improvement’ is ‘real’ vs ‘expectation or confirmation’ bias. But if I am kidding myself, I don’t really care as I am loving what I am hearing.
Amos Lee is sounding even better. ‘Impossible’, I hear you cry!
I think Vodka is the best balance of performance versus price in the range.
I have no idea why, and I have experimented frequently (because it is so easy), but my NDS, and now the ND555 gives it’s best in my system with C-Stream from streamer to switch, then Vodka from switch to NAS.
Can you please elaborate on what benefits Vodka has over C-Stream between switch to NAS? Also, have you tried 2 x Vodkas? (so swapping out both C-Streams?)