Ok … thats interesting … I had real issues with the HiLine I found it very bright … this was when I had an NDS going through 552/500 … I had all the hi fi traits … for me it was an immediate no!!! As soon as I put the standard cable back … bliss. I then tried an ex demo super lumina din to din … I could not return it fantastic. I suggest giving the vodkas more time … but I really think you need to replace the Hiline … have you tried a demo SL??? Don’t try new ones …as the run in will effect your judgment…
Yes. I have tried a demo Superlumina. Twice actually. Different ones. I didn’t hate them. In fact, I really wanted to like them because of the superior build quality compared to the Hiline (mine has been repaired once), but I simply found it removed low-level detail and tonal texture, and once I’d noticed that it lost all magic.
I’ve made a small edit (Superline to Superlumina) just to ensure there’s no product confusion.
They do take a long while - weeks - to get past the over-edgy aspect but timing and delay is excellent and not a problem I’m complaining about …and it is very obvious when not done right in my system.
One thing I find is that they are very sensitive to revealing everything that is happening more than the previous Cinnamon I used which was nicer but smaller-sounding and less revealing of both detail and nasties.
For example - if I have my Sky set-top box on in the other room on the main house mains circuit (not the HiFi mains circuit) then I clearly hear it as impacting performance with both Cinnamon and Vodka - how it is doing that via Ethernet chatter or Mains noise I don’t know but putting on standby and the problem disappears.
With Cinnamon it is a ‘fat’ lumpy bass effect - livable but worth removing, but the Vodka has it as a harsh aggressive edge that you really want gone. The Cinnamon hides it better - but the Vodka shows the problem more.
I’m not saying that this is all down to the Vodka being ‘better’ but it is definitely more revealing in ways that you may not want to know how much is getting into your system and spoiling things. I’m used to this running Active as it is part of set-up that you get more rough with good and have to methodically tune-out all the bad stuff to get all the remaining great musical experience it offers.
The comments on timing and decay can be fixed IMO. I’m certainly not saying perfect - there are more expensive cables costing multiples of the Vodka so probably more to achieve, but not awful.
I found all my SL Naim cables did the same thing and were generally awful screeching brash things until they run-in over weeks - the Vodka is definitely further improving over the weeks I have them - but they ruthlessly reveal everything I’m finding.
DB.
Thanks. I’m almost as bad on names as I am on numbers…
That is what my SL cables sounded like before they run-in. The old HiLine was more graceful and presented gentle details that the SL cable seemed to at first brutally cut through with an edge of clinical deatil.
But after a few weeks (about three I think) they opened in mid-HF, then another month or so and the fullsome bass happened and they were far better in all respects than the HiLine, making the latter sound murky, smeary and closed-in by comparison. Yet I had preferably had ‘breaks’ from the SL cable run-in to swap back to HiLine until it lost all harsh edges.
People say they have no such problems - it may be a combination of me and my Active system - also me is why I have an Active system so just me really!
DB.
Michaelb,…Darke Bear’s conception of AQ Vodka I share to 100%,…Please read it.
What length do you have on your Vodka.?
I have two 0,75cm,and one at 1.5 m.
The difference is very,very,very small…but the one at 1,5m I experience as a little bit better.
/Peder🙂
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
I was assured both Superluminas were well run in.
With them it was a lack of texture and low-level detail.
With the Vodkas it’s not been a matter of too much detail, though they certainly accentuate some mid and low-treble details, but a loss of textural detail. It’s a problem, in other words, not so much of harshness (which went after the first day or two), but of natural balance on acoustic instruments and voice. They sound impactful but less real.
As for length, I have 2 x 0.75 and 1 x 5m. If I eventually like them, I may swap the 0.75 for 1m.
Leaving aside the SL cables as I found lack of detail-retrieval was not a problem they have.
There is a different characteristic signature, but along the same line with the Vodka. I’m finding that, for example, the age of a female singer is revealed more strikingly - the voice seems to bloom more with age and the cables can add extra harmonic distortion that covers this and now it is gone - and I can hear, for example, Kim Wilde has a young girl voice on the early albums then her voice gradually fills as she matures and is fuller with a richer range of harmonic structure in later albums with only a year or two apart.
I don’t know what is more correct, but do find some other HiFi cables sound over-full and rich and seem to add harmonic structure that is not originally present - it is nice but it blooms the sound and gives an over-full bass.
The Naim SL cables seem leaner but wider-bandwidth in terms of better retention of relative-inter-harmonic phase information that presents a cleaner sound that has more correct (to my hearing) low bass energy and timing.
The Vodka seems to do similar, but it does not sound like the way Naim would do it if they ever decide to make their version. It perhaps has a ‘shape’ to it more - but I find everything has a signature and you have to balance it all in your own system to strike the right end-result.
I may eventually find I prefer the AQ Diamond (when I get to hear one) over the Vodka, as it is the next one ‘up’ in the range and I’m finding I like that stable of cable offerings, but I’m not at present disliking the Vodka, but do find it fussy.
DB.
there’s barely room to get the connectors on there!
I’m listening to Richard Thompson singing on the album Still at the moment at it loses the “breath” and “chest” in his voice, a distinctive aspect of both. He comes out at me more with the Vodkas but at the same time doesn’t feel close, tender or intimate. Same with the young Schwarzkopf on the early Ackerman performance of Strauss Last Songs. It’s a strange effect.
That said, the cables are grabbing me a bit more today. They’ve been leaving me cold this week. Either I am getting used to them or something new is happening…
Hello,
How long do you think a Cinnamon AQ will stabilize?
Is it better to take 1.5m of the same cable instead of 0.75m?
Thank you, very interesting!
I tried 1.5m and 3m length of Cinnamon and both were good but sounded different.
In general the longer length is a fuller sound but possibly a bit less immediate - the shorter get more ‘lively’ sounding and immediate.
You can get too much of either in one’s system I find - I settled for 1.5m as about right with Cinnamon for my system.
I only tried 1.5m Vodka but get the impression you could run longer lengths of that successfully.
Run-in for Cinnamon is a week to ten days to over all the bumps - but it continued to improve over many weeks.
Vodka was more rocky-ride with bigger ups and downs and took a bit longer.
DB.
DB I understand you use full s/l cables on your system, did you try in the past listening to chord music on your system instead?
I did try the Tuned-array interconnect, which was being raved about a few years ago and did not get on with it at all. That kind of put me off a bit to wondering if I prefer a different voicing on cables - the Chord was a bit over-full in my system, but could have been just right for another.
I’ve found all high-end cables run-in and change character over weeks and months, so what begins as bright and thin can end-up perfect later - that is what happened with my DIN-XLR SL cables which my Dealer well run-in set I demoed at home were wonderful and my new ones were shouting and thin for weeks until they sounded right - and it took many months before the bass-end really opened-out.
Systems are different ant it seems interconnect run-in opens-out from somewhere upper-mid and goes up and down over time and the deep bass octaves finish last, but they just sound a bit restrained until that happens, while the top and mid run-in sounds worse.
Not anything one way or another to say about the more recent Chord offering with Naim equipment, but there is a strong enough following that it must be doing something right.
DB.
Last week I complained on the sound I had,I think you remember,was really bad,but this week everything changed my system is singing the music is around, over all my room,no looking which side of speaker is louder than the other everything is in balance speakers vanished
Thanks, good recommendation.
Please do not interpret this as being rude but I am so glad that I cannot afford the 500 series - how can there be so much difference to performance with cables?
If I am reading this thread correctly a multi thousand pound product is entirely at the mercy of the cables used! If so, what cables do Naim test their gear with?
Surely the cables used by Naim have the best performance with these players?
I must admit I had similar feelings, mainly in an attempt to reassure myself that sub-500 series gear is perfectly fine, and banish the thought of the cost of 500 series black boxes from my mind. That was until I dabbled in the mysteries and legends that are 500-esque.
Soon appeared a CD555PS to power my asthmatic NDS, and then a vintage 552, both fully home demoed at length (this is important as they are pricey, even pre loved).
If I were you, I would keep telling myself 500 series components cannot be worth the outlay, particularly if they are floored by the use of stock cables. That way you will save a load of cash and remain content with what you have, and leave us poor, deluded 500 fanboys to our obsessive behaviour.
As with all discretionary expenditure, the individual must weigh up their own priorities, the needs and wants of others in the household and the ‘value’ of objects of desire.
As far as i know the deluded 500 fanboys(and girls) club is free…up to the point of purchase😬