ND555 Impressions

Ok - after a few more hours things are definitely improving, so what has changed - and why post an initail impression earlier before run-in?

Well it was before as if there was a tangled mesh or web of music chaotically slurring and mixing and meshing together where it aught not be and I was having some real problems following it all, as there was also a lot of information in all that all doing this at once - but right in the middle of lower female voice it was ok and good.

Now that ‘good’ band of order has expanded out and extends up and down the frequency response and there is an order to things in that notes and their harmonics seem properly related and timing more correctly…and a lot more.

Why I posted an initial ‘first impressions’ was that for many that is as far as this cable will have got - I’ve seen it happen. People will wait-out the run-in for a super-expensive cable for weeks before it all comes right, but an inexpensive one must be obeying a different God of physics and needs to be right immediately.

I’m going to give this little beast some time to fit-in and show what it can do. It is already showing some nice vocalization of tone colours and emphasis that I like and it presents a solid image, if a bit phasey and indistinct at the edges right now, but it has improved.

The run-in continues of the recommended inexpensive Ethernet cable that obviously makes no difference with the ND555 that seems to reveal so many hidden things.

DB.

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The run-in continues, but I’ve taken a break back onto the Vodka for a while as I really was struggling with the presentation - may be just a bad run-in patch of these cables - but I wanted to verify and the music returned to what I expect and I could relax and enjoy again. I do hate the run-in effects.

One thing I tried through once verifying that normal music services returned with the Vodka between the ND555 and the Melco, I had the idea to try the other length of the Designacable Ca5e to replace my Melco to switch Ethernet segment. That segment was an old 3m length of Cat5e patch cord that once saw duties in a cable room long ago before being re-tasked for the HiFi; the new cable is 4m to give me a bit more room to dress it easier than the original 3m allowed.

…anyway - the ‘earthy’ sound (as I’ll call it) of these new cables was immediately present and stood-off by the final Vodka cable run from Melco to ND555 it was not messing with my head with the timing so I could listen to and enjoy the music. It sounds different and better - no idea why as that link is not really doing much at all and not carrying any digital music signal. The overblown bass of the new non-run-in cable is also apparent but not in the way for my musical enjoyment.

I’ll run this for a while and later swap back the Designacable (from the Vodka) for the ND555 segment and continue that run-in journey. However it turns out this is a learning journey in that I’d not considered (or more correctly wanted to consider) the Melco to Switch segment of any great relevance in my system.
There may also be some better synergy when using the same cable type (I hope) when I put the Designacable segment back.

DB.

So nicely run in maybe? All my cables have been used elsewhere before connecting server to streamer. Do you think run in can be progressed off system by using a cable to connect the PC for a while to get it over the worst rather than suffering through it?

I’ve no idea what facilitates run-in - I suspect having a representative signal on the cable is enough - and with Ethernet any digital signal may do it, but as I’ve not confirmed I can’t say it is all that is needed.

My old cable I have in circuit so I can swap between it and the new one just inserted that has to run-in. The new one shows promise but has a relatively ‘earthy-dirty’ sound by comparison, but with more information also which I’d not heard before.

Whatever is going on here has nothing at all to do with the digital domain considerations of data integrity IMO, but seems more akin to playing with tuned-circuits interacting with the equipment concerned and the other cables - an RF effect possibly. But just declaring it an ‘RF Effect’ and ‘lets move-on’ does not solve that it is there and impacting the performance for that particular system.

Hence there may not be a ‘best’ cable but rather a set of cables that do the right thing in different systems depending on how they are driven and interconnected. Also depending on the HiFi system’s performance envelope and owners personal preferences - generally there is a big overlap in what people like but also significant personal preferences too.

I’m happy to experiment and find what works best in my system - it may be these new inexpensive cables when run-in - or not, that does not matter to me, as I have a working solution with the ND555 and cables I already have to hand, but I’m hearing with these experiments that there is a lot more performance in there so if I can get it - especially for small financial outlay for these cables - then I’ll try to get it.

This sort of thing can upset a lot of people I do get that people want clean demarcations and a single ‘best’ that you use that is all well tied-down and understood. I’d like that as well but it is what it is and you can implement a very satisfying solution I think, but you need to trust your own final opinion about if you are happy with the end result.

Sometimes something new musically appears and draws me in and I’m enjoying it but not quite sure why - these experiences are valuable for me as usually over many hours and days my conscious mind presents some of the ‘what’ I’m enjoying, that my subconscious mind immediately communicates with.

DB.

Hi Darke … I have been puzzling over the whole cable run in thing … what’s great is it appears you are very systematic in your approach. I have a question for you… Once you run in a cable - does it stay run in - ie. if you remove it - then leave it for a while then reinstall does the run in start again???

Hi DB,

Which ‘direction’ did you decide to try with first?

After all this cable talk here I decided to buy a couple to try in place of my AQ Cinnamon.

M

Unknown over a long time, but certainly if just removed for a few days it seems to fit-back to prior performance almost immediately.
Perhaps I need a kind of ‘cable-heater’ to keep them simmering when removed. :slightly_smiling_face:

For the non-direction marked cable I usually standardise on reading the cable marking text and aligning it toward the ND555 streamer. When I swap it back (I’m still using the Vodka for a bit) I may try it the other way to see if that goes better.

In my system the Designacable Belkin is fulsome with lots of detail but rather smeared with that detail right now, which is probably because it needs to run-in. The clarity from voice to top-end reveals some nice naturally-aspected detail with nice rendition of the gradation in amplitude level differences, which I like. But presently the Bass lacks resolution of note-structure and impacts timing on my system a lot with it like that - it is also muddled with the detail - the detail is thrown-out but not yet as cohesively as I’d need eventually to have done.

I dislike ‘smearing’ effects particularly with HiFi rendition and it is why I gravitated toward an Active system and took so long to swap to streaming as that seemed infested with that murky smearing effect - until I heard it did not have to be.

DB.

Thx DB,

I am using the cables with a Klimax and like you have orientated the cable with the text towards the Linn. I think the word ‘fulsome’ hits the mark for me. The top is a tad ragged with lots of mid detail. As I run a passive system perhaps I live in the land of smear!

Enough good and interesting things here for me to stay the course for a week before swapping back.

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Not intending to offend - there are very good Passive systems that do not smear things and some Active systems that smear, despite being Active, just that I found Active lend themselves to less of a particular distortion artifact I personally hate and avoid.
A bit murky or fulsome is fine when other things are done well, like detail-retrieval and rendering and the whole thing times, swings and works for me.

We are all different! :slightly_smiling_face:

DB.

Hi DB,

No offence AT ALL. I was trying to be amusing, probably should have added an emoji.

Grateful for all your hard work and dedication to the community. Please carry on with all you do.

Cheers,

M

It is more really dedication to me and putting the info on the forum.
I’m having fun here with this now.

Anyone reading this stuff - no you don’t need ‘special’ cables to get the ND555 to ‘work’ - it goes fine with almost any installation but the fine Art of the Dealer in matching the cables to customer system should eventually be put in here to get a good end-result for the customer that he likes.

I’m finding out what works - and what for whatever reason does not - and also opening this out to not necessarily a search for the perfect cable or solution, as it may be that there are many ways to get a successful result.

I learn a lot on the forum and get ideas to try out.

DB.

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Thanks for you insights as usual. I would also be interested in the views of people on the comparison between the Vodka and the Diamond and also compared to the Chord Music. Either your opinion or others on the forum.
As the Chord Music is so expensive it would also be good to hear if it’s worth it accord8ng to people who have heard it a bit more extensive…

Amazon sells the diamond. You can test it and return.

Possible but I am not the type of guy to potentially just test it and sent it back, I need to think about that.

we are different, no problem.

Hi Michael,

Well, I am a couple of days in and just wanted to say thank you. I am LOVING what this cheap cable is doing in my system.

Over the course of the initial afternoon the top end calmed down and the music became balanced as the mid-band emphasis reduced. DB used the word fulsome, and I agree with this, in a very positive way. It adds some texture and mid detail compared to the AQ Cinnamon I have been using.

The bass in terms of low end extension remains unchanged in my system, but there is what I would describe as an upper bass lift. Classical music swells and diminishes even more beautifully.

Any downsides? Early on I did feel that some of the dynamics in rock music were a tad muted - didn’t pop as I am used to, I will need to revisit this. I think this is due to a touch of thickening in the mid-band compared to the AQ Cinnaman. BUT, this same mid-band is responsible for some upper bass blossoming that I am really enjoying. For instance, on Sting - A Thousand Years as the track starts there is a bass guitar that gets played off the beat under the various drums. With the AQ those notes are present and correct, but with the Premium they seam to grow and hang there. Another example would be the bass playing in Dusty Springfield - Son of a Preacher Man. The bass playing can get pretty unrestrained but is just lost a bit in the mix, the Premium makes it a tad more explicit. The downside of this is that there are certain details that I am used to hearing that now recede more into the background. I hear them because I know they are there, if I didn’t I suspect they might go unregistered.

I could describe the overall effect including a touch more warmth, this has certainly been a boon for Qobuz.

For me this cable is an excellent find. I love the positives and will live with any minor downside, which may still correct over time.

I’m glad you’re enjoying them. I have to admit I dismissed them out of hand on the first couple of hours audition. Fortunately I decided to put them back in and let them burn in before finally judging them. Now, I am still to find anything costing even many times more that beats them as far as I am concerned. At the moment I am playing with the very similar Belden Cat5e cables but with solid wires and a less heavy plastic jacket from Blue Jeans (also with sentinel connectors). The jury is out so far, but I think the fatter, stranded Designacables have the edge. I’ll post when it’s become clearer and after I have also had a good listen (and burn-in) with their similar Cat6 cables. I’m hoping once this is over, I will never ave to think about Ethernet cables ever again!

Well, I’ve brought my “high-end cables” experiment to an end. The last two were the Wireworld Starlight Cat8 and the Sablon Panatela Reserva.

The Wireworld are a curious take on Ethernet cable design, using separately shielded cables in a ribbon design without any use of twisted pairs. This makes them quite light and easy to route compared to many of the high-end Ethernet cables which are quite stiff and chunky. The cables are fitted with Metz connectors which are a bit like the Telegartner ones, only shorter. They have a similar but softer black plastic latching mechanism which is a little spongy and difficult to release. Some of them will not latch properly. This is a known problem on the Roon Nucleus. I was using 2x1m cables and one of the latched, while the other didn’t.

Sonically, the Starlight presents a very broad and precise out-of-speaker soundstage with better depth than the vodkas and a similar mid/high upward frequency tilt that makes details stand out against a black background, but in a way that is not always coherent to the instruments and sometimes creates odd spatial effects. Grand piano, for example, tends to leak across the soundstage. Overall I had a similar impression to the Vodkas that there was a bass and treble roll-off that lowered the noise floor but also filtered out bass resonance and rumble as well as treble air. Leading edges are strong on the Wireworlds, however, giving a good sense of timing. Conversely tonal fidelity is its weakest point. There is more texture than the Vodkas but it is a little “dumbed down”. The body of classical instruments is lost, drum textures are dynamic but flat with little resonance and decay. Cymbals are monotonal and stringed instruments thin and somewhat screechy. The bass is, however, more textured than the Vodkas, while the upper registers are lighter and more airy, but also drier and less lush. The upward tilt meant that certain pieces lost their drive, from big symphonic works to Muse’s Hyper Music and Plug In Baby. Overall, I found these very slightly more involving than the Vodkas, but couldn’t get on with the lack of tonal fidelity.

The Wireworlds were sent out unsolicited by Futureshop when they found I wasn’t happy with the Vodkas. They give exemplary service and were very dedicated to trying to find a solution that would keep me happy on instrumental tone and textures. They were likewise very calm and professional when it became clear we couldn’t find anything that worked better for me than the Designacable Belden CatSnake Tactical cables.

The Sablons are in another class altogether. They are a big, fat and stiff cable that nevertheless obligingly stays put once you’ve routed it as you want it. The burn-in takes a long time and goes through lots of ups and downs. They need at least 5 days of constant ethernet traffic before starting to settle down, though the biggest changes are in the first couple of days. Like the Vodkas and Starlights, you get a big, solid soundstage against a very dark background and very low noise floor, albeit again at the expense of tonal accuracy, instrumental texture and venue ambience and air, though the trade-off is much less here. The Sablons have a more realistic and involving presentation, with a more convincing soundstage and instrumental positioning. Image depth is particularly strong: you can tell which way a grand piano is facing. Timing is also better despite no leading-edge emphasis.

Overall, the Sablons are by far the most musical of these three “high-end” cables with a big, smooth, fluid, lush and somewhat “dark” sound I can imagine Linn and valve aficionados loving. I found them beguiling on small-scale intimate albums like El Hadj N’Diaye’s Geej and Eleanor McEvoy’s very well recorded Portrait of a Songwriter. Bass extension is better than the Vodkas and worked well on Massive Attack’s Angel on Mezzanine, though there was a little texture, breath and clarity lacking in Elizabeth Fraser’s voice. Likewise, they gave a good, well-controlled rendition of Musette with Drums on Cocteau Twins’ Head over Heels, allowing Elisabeth Fraser’s voice to float over the pounding of the drum machine. They were also fabulous with progressive trance, beautifully capturing the bells and drums on Trancemaster 5 although bringing a brittle, monotonal edge to snares.

Where they ultimately just couldn’t satisfy me was on classical music. Piano was a particular challenge: slow pieces in the upper registers, like Chopin’s Nocturne 2 and Harp Study gain a nice albeit not entirely realistic shimmering and bell-like effect (the Sablons make bells sound fantastic!), but bass notes are shorn of their texture and precision, spoiling big percussive and rumbling dynamic works like his Revolutionary Study or the 1st movement of his 2nd piano sonata. At its most extreme, the individual bass notes are no longer discernible in a smearing of the left hand rumblings of the Revolutionary Study. Double bass and cello underpinnings and textures are also lost, although some of this bass roll-off also takes drive and ground away from completely different works, like Motorhead’s Overkill. On the Designacable Beldens, the bass here was both deeper and tighter, so that the drive and impact suffered less from the usual weird Motorhead mixing. Vocals also suffered, with certain throated inflections and fricatives missing. Like the Vodkas and Wireworlds, there was also a sense of dark congestion and missing air. Overall, there was a loss of ambience, dynamism, incisiveness and - for want of a better word, textural grit – compared to real life and the Designacable Belden cables in my system. There was finally, also a diminished sense of performers playing together or against each other – they related less well together, possibly because the various inflections of instrument and voice didn’t come across as well.

People on this forum with greater technical understanding and interest than I have stated that high-end cables “shape the noise” rather than altering the signal. I now tend to agree: it’s some of what I experienced with these cables. They do roll off both the top and bottom ends, removing noise but also texture and detail not only there but across the board, almost like a filter. The Wireworlds and to a slightly lesser extent the Vodkas also tilt the balance towards the mids and trebles, accentuating leading edges and creating an effect of greater detail despite the loss of microdetail and microdynamics. All share a widening of the soundstage which, with the accentuation of macro-detail, leads to an impression of more pinpointed positioning. Personally, I can’t live with the less precise timing, artificial soundstaging compared to a live performance, and above all the loss of instrumental/vocal tone and texture. But I can imagine others feeling differently, particularly about the Sablons.

I’m now satisfying my curiosity playing with high-quality “standard” ethernet cables, comparing the Designacable Belden Cat5e stranded cable with the Blue Jeans single wire Belden Cat5e and 6 (so no shielding on any of them and all 24 AWG). Just to see what, if any, sonic differences there may be between them.

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I’ve found the same thing: that all the cables in the setup make a difference, certainly those in the chain from router to switch to Nucleus to switch to ND555. And one could of course tune to suit one’s preferences, pretty much as SoTM offer. In my experience, the cable from switch to ND555 makes by far the biggest difference, but it is also by far the longest. So far I am still finding the Catsnake cables offer the most natural balance in my system.

Great writeup Michael, thankyou