Hi DB,
Interesting observations - so you seem to imply that you prefer to downgrade in my case as I have an audioquest Vodka Cable. While I haven’t had the luxary to compare it left and right, I think I get a good result with this cable and even was contemplating to move to a Chord Music. Did you compare with any of these two I mention ?
Hello DB
Very interesting. I went to buy a couple of Cat5e cables per your results. Of course, mine could vary. I use L-Com Cables for all I do for a decade now, and I have never had one fail (in telescope work, no hi fi). There are 3 options:
Any Idea which of these I should try. Actually, its only $100 for two of each (One for my Core and one for my ND555–15 feet long) So I may just take the plunge and run the experiment. Perhaps you or Simon have some thoughts.
I know–use my ears!
More like a fiver for plane Jane cat5e, start at the bottom and let the rest prove themselves.
From my experience - so far - your option 1.
Try the no-nonsense basic cable as it should be least expensive. My proviso is that my tests are for short-runs between the music server and ND555 which is sitting in my case in the next Fraim stack so 0.5m can reach but I preferred 1m or more to get a fuller sound.
Since your run is a lot longer you may get a different set of effects to make a compromise on.
The Designer of the Melco I once met and had a long talk with was very adamant that short lengths of CAT7 or better would work best - but I did not like the CAT7 in my system - too ‘HiFi impressive’ in the wrong way. In my system the two types of CAT5e I’ve tried each sound different and I prefer one over the other - but both are far better than the CAT6 or CAT7 or the more expensive cable I tried so far.
…then there is the strange story of the Naim ND555 demo where the Dealer wanted to use HiFi Ethernet cables as they genuinely preferred them - but Naim were adamant that ‘normal’ non-HiFi Ethernet cables were to be used for their demo.
There is something going on I think and people have different experiences of what works best.
I’m just reporting for people to try low-cost connectors as they may get preferable results - and if not at least you know the expensive cable you end-up with is best for you.
DB.
When I hear the better cable be the expensive one then I will say so - I don’t hear the CAT5e as a downgrade but a large upgrade over the more expensive ‘better’ cables I have tried.
But I’ve not tried them all or the ones you mentioned - and I’ve experienced people who genuinely prefer a different presentation of the music to me. I respect we are different, but I hear far more musical information present and working musically for me viscerally with the cheaper cable - where another does not appear to utilize this information and prefers a crisper cleaner sound. To my ears the crispness is an emphasis on edges and the cleanness is a removal of low level-information. A bit like the difference between a good Vinyl turntable and a less expensive one used to once be where the better TT let the loud and quiet passages exist side by side and the less expensive TT lost the quiet passages and emphasized the louder parts.
DB.
Thanks DB
I have a $350 Cat 7 connecting my ND555. As I recall, it came with a non descript dark grey cable, which I used for the Unity Core.
Looks like I need to do some testing. The cost of shipping is higher than the cost of the Option 1 cables($5). The option 2 cables are also quite reasonable($14). Only the Option 3 cables are higher ($39). Shipping is usually about $15. So I will get all 3 and have some fun for $131. Pretty cost effective upgrade. Can’t remember the last time I spent this little on an upgrade.
Thanks
i orderdered the option 1 today, 2,69 eur with shipping free. If it upgrades the sound vs my 850 eur audioquest diamond, it will be the best audio affair in my life.
You may not prefer the CAT5e - I’m just saying that I do so far.
So it may not be an upgrade. I spent-out on six other cables (CAT6 and CAT7) and none of them did what I wanted - but the lot only cost be about £25.
DB.
I just populated the experiment for Options 1,2 & 3: Cat 5e, Cat 5e Shielded, and Cat 5e double shielded. It was $154 for 6 cables, 15v feet long, one for ND555 and one for Unity core of each of the 3 types, including taxes and shipping. They will be here in 3-5 biz days. I will post what I find. If I don;t like Cat 5e, I can always go back to my $350 cat 7 wire. Don’t expect that to happen.
Bailyhill
i am aware of that. I just want to try. For now, one thing is sure in my system: the melco direct i tried was less involving vs the nds to the cisco switch. I preferred my unitserve/ linear ps.
The second thing is the cat 5 e i have not tried yet, i will report in the next day.
What i feel is that you have an ultra dynamic active system, which can become easily agressive if you don’t choose the adequate components in your system. The reason perhaps of some laid back favor in sound quality vs the upfront quality of your system, to counterbalance ?
This is true with all systems - you need to match components to achieve the overall end-result that is pleasing and musically involving.
Every system component - boxes and connectors - all complement each other in a system that sounds good to the owner.
Some system components I find can go over-heavy full-blown and some over-lean bright but when all is set-up correct with the right complementing components it all works.
For example - the Statement S1 Pre is very neutral but has an incredibly deep and powerful bass response compared with the 552, which was no slouch in that department. The SL interconnects can in some systems sound ‘thin’ but they run-in fuller and anyway really complement the Statement stuff for which they were originally designed.
My view is that Naim re-voiced their system with Statement and all new SL cables and DR upgrades have steered things more toward what they are liking with the Statement. The ND555 is Reference level streamer but it has the Statement grade of neutrality and will fit well in that system.
…also set-up of Active is more work up-front than a Passive system and it will go-wrong when something is not right more spectacularly. The new Active components are better than the early Naim Active but still have the need to get everything right - with experience you know what to do and it is easy to tune-up, if initially time-consuming.
DB.
i see on your system description that your powerlines are connected to dedicated main rings. What does it mean: the powerlines go straight into the wall? you have some special plugs like furutech or other? You don’t use a powerblock?
I use a dedicated mains ring circuit for the HiFi with the Power Amps directly into the wall double-sockets either side of a double-socket that has a snaxo supercap supply and the other remaining socket next to that feeds a 6-way Wireworld Matrix linear dis-board for the -X-X-S1Pre -555PS(A) -X-555PS(D). Where ‘X’ means and empty socket and the S1Pre takes the 3rd from the cable (to wall) entry, then the others.
I tried lots of different ways and this works best - for me.
The differences are very large - big thumping boomy bass or not - or messy sound or stable dynamic image.
Naim say use S1Pre direct into the wall-socket, but my method works in my system better. Probably the full Statement passive pans-out differently, but I know my Dealer re-did his mains for their full Statement system and made a large improvement by doing the Mains via a block.
I prefer the Amps into the wall and the Class A stuff in a linear sequence in mains in same order as the box signals feed each other. This should keep induced noise from cross-coupling was my thinking (I used to design instrumentation amps long ago) and it seems to work.
DB.
thanks DB for all these precisions. Apparently the active vs passive system react differently vs the power connection and choice of power components.
Thanks for all your contribution.
Drake …
I am using Roon to my ND555 … via an i7 nuc … I changed the psu to a high quality linear low noise … wow what an incredible difference! Drake knowing how systematic and careful you are … have you tried alternative power supplies in your in your ethernet chain???
It would help if Naim were more open about their Ethernet cable advice…nothing in the nd555 white paper and of course no manual. Apparently the are to give tips at the Bristol show on getting the best out of digital streaming?
DB, Could you elaborate? I assume you are after a stable dynamic image rather than the other two. Did you just try all the permutations until you got the one you liked? I can understand your theory of the plug order following the current flow.
Thanks
Phil
As an Active system owner my preference has been to release the life and immediacy of the musical performance where present - and it is usually in there. So anything that seems to overlay or smear the presentation I don’t like to hear and thse effects seem very easy to impose into your system if you are not careful.
I used to naively believe (decades ago) that if you got the right boxes and connected them up with any wiring that passed basic electronics spec and them powered them any way you liked then all wound be well …wrong so many ways.
Limiting discussion here to mains - I’m open to experiment once I decide there may be something going on, but once I do this I believe my own results rather than what I’m told I’m supposed to hear. It seems that all electrical connections into a HiFi that can form loops can introduce current circulations in various ways. Essentially if it is possible to happen and you provide a potential then it happens.
The main error a lot of people make is thinking their HiFi boxes are passive things into which power flows through the mains from the power station, which is not true. The boxes contain circuits that rectify the mains via transformers and essentially short-circuit repeatedly at the top of the mains cycle and pull a lot of current from the mains that offers it up. So how the mains to the boxes are sequenced forms a mesh over which current can circulate to an extent - perhaps - then experiment seems to show sequence matters.
I tried long multiple-runs for each box to the house power input and that was awful - bland stark lifeless sound. I found keeping the loops of mains wiring between the boxes interconnecting as small as possible sounded much better.
Essentially - if you can have all the Naim mains lead lengths determine the size of the circuit-loop between the boxes then you seem to get best results overall.
As to what I prefer - nothing emphasized or lacking in presentation - dynamically natural - meaning as large dynamic parts of the music happen you keep the low-level acoustic image. The subjective effect is that everything is stable and stays still - the music is underpinned by a sound-stage that does not move. You can also get the effect that everyone is swaying about in a net (I hate this effect) - which can happen with a poor plug-in sequence, such as the Power Amps in the wrong position.
With an Active system you have more plugs and more ways to get it wrong, so once you find an approach that works for you stick with it until you are shown something better is my approach. Choosing to believe it does not matter does not help - unfortunately.
DB.
Hello Darkebear
Very interesting. I went on line and saw the 6 way Wire world Matrix unit. Very nice. I have a couple of clarifications to understand what you have done.
What exactly do you mean by a “dedicated mains ring circuit”?
Does the double wall socket have 4 sockets?
I understand the "X-X-S1Pre -555PS(A) -X-555PS(D) convention.
Do you have a streamer? Where is it plugged in? Or is 555PS(A) or (D) the power supply for the streamer? I assume the 555PS(A) is analog for the pre and 555PS(D) is for the streamer(ND555?)
Do you use the full length of the Naim Mains cables? Or do you coil them to be as short as possible? You do not use the Wireworld mains cables from the Naim Gear to the WW Matrix as I understand.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Don’t deliberately coil mains leads - just run them naturally and not in parallel if you can avoid it. A visual mess can work best.
For mains I use standard non-switched double-socket pairs. So a dedicated house ring-main goes from my house fuse unit to the four sets of double sockets (8 outlets in all) of which I use three double wall sockets (one feeding my dis-board) and one spare. The sockets are fed by two radial runs either side of the sockets which are daisy chained close together (side-by-side almost touching) to then form a ring circuit. I also have another radial mains run that I presently do not use.
All this began as trying separated radial runs for the HiFi boxes - found that lacked life and was dead - reconfigured (all UK legal wired) to be a ring and then it all sounded right and that is what works for me. The ring is also a ‘flat-ring’, meaning the two legs are equal length run side-by-side so as not to subtend a large loop to reduce interference pick-up. Before I did all this I’d occasionally get RF radio breakthrough but after none.
I use all Naim cables as supplied - no changes. I just decide to plug them all in close together - except the extra dis-board as described. The thinking behind this was that all class A supplies will have little if any dynamic music current flow, whereas the class B power amps must have by design and a lot of current, so having some more inherent inductance in the leads between where they draw their mains supply and the rest of the Pre and source boxes made sense to reduce the HF on the rectification edge-spikes.
…in any case the ideas needed to pass muster by listening and they seem to so that is what I use at present. I’m not saying I’m right but that is what I prefer. With a good revealing system you can hear all these things - unfortunately. People then tend to get upset and demand perfect solutions - I just accept the manufacturer (Naim) do the best they possibly can and I help it in the install if I can.
DB.